This one in the video below mush have some effect as the waste water is the color off coffee.
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Zero Nitrates, Water Changes.......Why?
- Thread starter Bderick67
- Start date
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One possibility (which I have no proof to support and am just speculating about) would be potential for fish excretions, such as hormones and similar. In a saltwater tank, these would most likely mostly get removed with a protein skimmer. Plants do not remove these (usually they lack the enzymes needed). Some species of bacteria would probably be able to degrade them; however, there would need to be a high concentration present, which would most likely be bad for your fish.
You could deal with these on two possible levels. One is a freshwater skimmer. These are at the moment still quite expensive, I think. And the other would be with the addition of a powerful oxidizing agent in a controlled environment. That would be ozone. What ozone does is, it acts as a strong oxidizing agent, oxidizing organic molecules and changing their form, thus inactivating them.
You'd probably get away without either, but if you want extra insurance, either might be worth looking into.
Personally I've gone with no water changes for up to 2 months (loads of water lettuce, nitrates below 5ppm) with no adverse effects.
Edit: Protein skimmers work on the principles of surface tension. Since saltwater and freshwater differ in physical properties, freshwater and saltwater skimmers are not interchangeable.
You could deal with these on two possible levels. One is a freshwater skimmer. These are at the moment still quite expensive, I think. And the other would be with the addition of a powerful oxidizing agent in a controlled environment. That would be ozone. What ozone does is, it acts as a strong oxidizing agent, oxidizing organic molecules and changing their form, thus inactivating them.
You'd probably get away without either, but if you want extra insurance, either might be worth looking into.
Personally I've gone with no water changes for up to 2 months (loads of water lettuce, nitrates below 5ppm) with no adverse effects.
Edit: Protein skimmers work on the principles of surface tension. Since saltwater and freshwater differ in physical properties, freshwater and saltwater skimmers are not interchangeable.
This is what I was wondering, is using a protein skimmer with plants is beneficial.
So the foaming and dirty waste water in the video I posted is what? That is a SW skimmer on a FW tank.
Thanks for the ozone suggestion, just another option that I have no knowledge and now have to research
LoLAll water has surface tension, so it will always work to some extent. However, that skimmer is not pulling out nearly as much as it would in saltwater.
The difference in surface tension results in a difference in the stability of the bubbles. If a bubble pops too early, you lose whatever was on it, etc.
As far as I understand on the topic of skimmer with plants, I'd like to point out 2 things -
I have no idea whether or not ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are big enough to attach well to the bubbles. I was under the impression that the point of surface skimming is removal before breakdown.
Plants preferentially use ammonia (thus removing it from the system and consequentially lowering nitrates) as a source of nitrogen. This will always be present in some amount due to fish excreting it through their gills.
Also, I'm not all too sure on what the smallest molecule removed by skimming is. It would almost definitely remove any peptide hormones; however, steroid hormones are comparatively small and might be a problem.
Edit: I'm also not sure in what way fish would pick up any hormones anyway, as even steroid hormones might be too big to pass through the gills (the reason why nitrates aren't problematic as opposed to nitrites is that they cannot pass through the gills (however; don't quote me on that).
The difference in surface tension results in a difference in the stability of the bubbles. If a bubble pops too early, you lose whatever was on it, etc.
As far as I understand on the topic of skimmer with plants, I'd like to point out 2 things -
I have no idea whether or not ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are big enough to attach well to the bubbles. I was under the impression that the point of surface skimming is removal before breakdown.
Plants preferentially use ammonia (thus removing it from the system and consequentially lowering nitrates) as a source of nitrogen. This will always be present in some amount due to fish excreting it through their gills.
Also, I'm not all too sure on what the smallest molecule removed by skimming is. It would almost definitely remove any peptide hormones; however, steroid hormones are comparatively small and might be a problem.
Edit: I'm also not sure in what way fish would pick up any hormones anyway, as even steroid hormones might be too big to pass through the gills (the reason why nitrates aren't problematic as opposed to nitrites is that they cannot pass through the gills (however; don't quote me on that).
Would purigen take out the growth hormones?
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Go S.Vettel #1 RB8 3X WDC!!!!!!!!!
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?504763-Cheap-plants-less-nitrate!-POTHOS
__________________________________________________________________
Go S.Vettel #1 RB8 3X WDC!!!!!!!!!
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?504763-Cheap-plants-less-nitrate!-POTHOS
Copied from seachem's website...
Purigen® generally ignores simple elemental compounds, having an extreme affinity for nitrogenous organics.
Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal. It significantly raises redox. It polishes water to unparalleled clarity.
From these 2 statements, I'd say, no. Most growth hormones are steroid hormones and usually do not contain any nitrogen.
Purigen® generally ignores simple elemental compounds, having an extreme affinity for nitrogenous organics.
Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal. It significantly raises redox. It polishes water to unparalleled clarity.
From these 2 statements, I'd say, no. Most growth hormones are steroid hormones and usually do not contain any nitrogen.
Good info!
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Go S.Vettel #1 RB8 3X WDC!!!!!!!!!
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?504763-Cheap-plants-less-nitrate!-POTHOS
There is that term again, having a hard time understanding what "Oxidation-reduction" is in regards to an aquarium
I've never seen any study finding a growth hormone inhibitor or any other regulating hormones in water. (These hormones do exist, e.g., I think tadpoles have them, but I've never seen it found with fish.) I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'd think if it were there, it'd be a cinch to find it, and I've failed at finding those studies. What I have found is that the most important factor impacting growth is food, with degraded water conditions and stress as distant seconds or thirds on that list.
I'd also question the idea that minerals do not dissipate in tank water. 1) again, I can find no studies where anaylsis compared clean to "used" water regarding all the minerals in the water. 2) Fish consume minerals and use them. While one can say they haven't "gone" since they are in the fish's tissue, the water loses what was there. Unless food provides a replacement for what was used, the pertinent minerals and vitamins are no longer available.
Fish that are crowded or inhibited by a threatening fish are stressed. Stressed fish eat less and stressed fish have reduced regulatory systems. If they grow slower it's likely due to reduced food intake, reduced 'natural' hormones that enhance growth or inhibitory effects from missing minerals/vitamins or increased levels of nitrate.
