Wouldn't istlanum show genetic markers from both parental species in atleast nuclear dna if it was indeed a hybrid?
Amphilophus istlanus
- Thread starter dan518
- Start date
I'm not sure exterior traits are the best indicator of genetic predecessors. In the case of hybrids, traits that can be seen in both parent species may or may not be present in the resulting offspring. Altering dna by combining two separate species can resplice dna sequencing for certain traits and just because trimaculatum carries the trait for red eyes doesn't mean beani carries the same trait at the same point of the dna sequence. Red eyes in one species could be linked to alternative features in one species and then to an entirely different set of traits in another. As an example both tigers and lions have dna sequencing that code for their adult sizes. However, when the two are crossed and produce a liger, often the hybrid is able to achieve sizes greater than both the parent species. Therefore exhibiting a trait that wasn't seen in either tigers or lions.
It's funny how many people try to create hybrids thinking they'll get the exact traits they want. It's not quite that simple nor is evolution of natural hybrids.
So why was this subject even brought up? Someone clearly has got it into there bucket that Istlanum looks similiar to a Trimac and a Beani.... Well that's clearly not right as I stated earlier and if it isn't why are people even identifying this issue? Istlanum is no more a Hybrid than any other species out there full stop.... As is any Amphilogus infact. This is a pointless argument.
You are correct. Yours is a pointless argument. Yours....not the topic at hand. Science doesn't' STOP based on what people SEE anymore. The primary reason this is now being discussed is because of science's ability to analyze DNA. It now allows us to better reconstruct family trees. Here's something else that doesn't look alike but are also along the same family lineage....hippos and whales. I can't tell if you are trolling or are serious. Be a little more receptive to new ideas. This isn't like a bunch of wonks got together around a tank and said, whadda ya think?
I read the Heroine FB page that Wiilam put up, and my question is not so much the how (tectonic events can easily change the course and position of rivers to combine species at a certain point, and un-combine them later, allowing for a population of a hybrid of 2 species to form and in the end create a new one).
Consider that Herichthys minckleyi is the result of the isolation of a carpintus/cyanoguttus in the desert pools of Cuatro Cienegas, and that minckeyi is at this moment evolving into 3 distinct species due to trophic fluctuations.
My question is the when.
Did this hybridization take place 1 million years ago and evolve over that time, or only 10,000, or even more recently? How long did the process take to create the new and distinct species.
Will this kind of speciation occur now with the man made relocation of managuense to habitats where close cousins like Parachromis motaguense or freidrichsthali are endemic.
I believe this possibility/question came up when Parachromis "la Ceiba was found in an area where managuense had been introduced.
Consider that Herichthys minckleyi is the result of the isolation of a carpintus/cyanoguttus in the desert pools of Cuatro Cienegas, and that minckeyi is at this moment evolving into 3 distinct species due to trophic fluctuations.
My question is the when.
Did this hybridization take place 1 million years ago and evolve over that time, or only 10,000, or even more recently? How long did the process take to create the new and distinct species.
Will this kind of speciation occur now with the man made relocation of managuense to habitats where close cousins like Parachromis motaguense or freidrichsthali are endemic.
I believe this possibility/question came up when Parachromis "la Ceiba was found in an area where managuense had been introduced.
lol, funny - hippos and whales. I thought Whales were related to Elephants and Hippos were related to Pigs - oh and Rhinos are related to Horses - bet not many didn't knew that and I'm related to a an Ape.
What I'm saying is using the phrase Hybrid is a STRONG WORD... Istlanum is a well established species - besides Scientists are always changing their minds anyway... Next thing will be Apes will be higher up the evolution ladder than us lol
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I think that already has happened...at least in this area. When we collected that "la Cieba" fish we originally thought it was a new species being visually different from either Managuense or Fredrichsthali. It was subsequently ID'd as a Freddie. I think it's hybrid Freddie/Managuense. The females are very similar with Freddie's. The males not even close. They are more Managuense. This is one of those times that visual clues need to take a back seat to DNA analysis.
I agree about visual cues taking a back seat. In reality no one can tell with any certainty about any LFS species these days, because there is so much random "cottage industry" hybridization going on.
It would be interesting to have a DNA sequencing "cottage industry" appear so we could inexpensively find out if our species are true or not, with the swab of a Q-tip.
Something to think about entrepreneurial boys and girls!
It would be interesting to have a DNA sequencing "cottage industry" appear so we could inexpensively find out if our species are true or not, with the swab of a Q-tip.
Something to think about entrepreneurial boys and girls!
I don't think many people would argue that istlanus should be classified as a hybrid now, just a species that evolved through hybridisation rather then evolving from a common ancestry. All humans that originated from Europe have neanderthal dna in them about 4% so in a way I suppose I could call myself a hybrid
