!!!! DESPERATE URGENT HELP WITH MY DOVII !!!!

[Madness]

I need some desperate help with my Dovii. Please, if you know someone that may be able to help, please send my way.

I have A WC pair of Dovii, my male is pushing 17". About a week ago I noticed that my male was not aggressively eating. After closer inspection I noticed that his upper lip had been pulled out a little. I thought that maybe he and the female were doing some lip locking. But there was absolutely no signs of damage on him or her. I started treating with some melafix thinking maybe he cut himself along the folds of his upper lip.

Well this morning I noticed that half of his upper lip is dark blue. Also the upper pallet of his mouth is swollen so bad that you can see it. But I see NO cuts or damage. I do have a very large Pleco in with. Is it possible that he bit the pleco and has a sharp piece of fin stabbed into the roof of his mouth?

Any ideas from you large fish collectors. What might it be? Have you ever experienced this? What option do I have? Is there any meds I should make sure I use to keep infection down? If that is what it is.

 

[RD.]

I do have a very large Pleco in with. Is it possible that he bit the pleco and has a sharp piece of fin stabbed into the roof of his mouth?

Not only possible, but quite probable, which is why I never keep large plecos in with large cichlids. Seen this happen a number of times over the years. Your best bet would be to find a vet that can inject him with some antibiotics before it gets any worse. Short of that, these types of infections don't typically turn out too well.

At the least, get some Tetracycline or some other gram positive/gram negative anti-bacterial medication & start treatment immediately.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products5.html#T

 

[fishman09]

hate to see this as that dovii is amazing. it does look like an unfortunate pleco accident come on everyone. please help madness out

 

[C L O W N K N I F E]

Pleco got him good probably

 

[Madness]

He just spawned with his female. Go figure. He doesnt act sick, he just wont eat because of the mouth issue. I dont know. Big daily water changes, some antibiotics, and hope for the best.

 

[Modest_Man]

Here's some great info I got a couple years ago when my umbee had a similar thing. This is from Ben aka. EMK. My umbee ended up dying from it.

I have seen this on umbees several times, and I don't believe it injured itself on the egg crate.

Unfortunately, once the mouth/lips get that distended, then there isn't much hope for the fish.

If you catch it early enough (you will see a slight swelling of the mouth area before it starts to eat away holes around the lips) you can stop it but not necessarily cure it 100%. Umbees and festaes, IME, are very susceptible to this disease. I believe the white stringy feces in secondary.

The only thing that really worked for me (and I've tried a lot of different solutions) was a very diligent treatment with Furan 2 or Bifuran, basically a mixture of Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone.

It wouldn't hurt to try, but you have to do it everyday, with water changes daily.

I believe it is related to an ulcer disease seen more commonly in Koi and is caused by pseudomonas and aeromonas bacteria.

This ulcer disease could be hemorrhagic septicemia with symptoms that include deep skin lesions of variously sized areas of hemorrhage and necrosis. It is a very nasty, and I describe it as taking a dirty blunt screwdriver and taking chunks out of a fish.

I say it could be septicemia or at least related somehow because I've seen at times both symptoms (enlarged swollen and distended lips and hemorrhaging) appearing together.

The nitro is not topical. If you want to use something as a topical agent, try acriflavin. The medication (trade name bifuran or furan 2) is a powdered combination of nitro and furo. It will yellow your water and it isn't very water soluble so you have to "break" up the powder once in the water as it will accumulate along the surface. The yellow water will dissipate over time.

The swollen lips could have been a secondary infection due to injury (and this is the very reason why I don't recommend using egg crate as dividers for cichlids or aggressive fish. I've used it before and learned my lesson and now choose acrylic dividers whenever possible).

But I've seen the problem happen without warning and without prior injury to the mouth area. Also, you mentioned the fish was excreting the dreaded white feces which led me to believe it was a different issue and not caused by the egg crate.

It's strange because I've only seen it happen to a few fish species, particularly umbees. The other fish would be festae and most recently, micropthalmus.

I hope all your other fish are doing well, and hope that you will again raise the umbee. They are great fish!

-Ben

 

[RD.]

What Ben described in that quote is Flexibacter columnaris (Flavobacterium columnare) something very common with flowerhorn, and referred to as "duck lips".

That disease acts quickly in the acute form & slower in the chronic form.

Flavobacterium columnare thrives and reproduces faster in warm water (as do most bacteria), so cooler temps @ approx 75F is best.

Maracyn along with Maracyn 2, as well as Furan 2 (60 mg Nitrofurazone and 25 mg Furazolidone per packet) & Kanaplex (Kanamycin Sulfate) combinations also work well for this ailment. As a bonus these combos will kill off any Aeromonas which is very often part of a Flexibacter infected fish.

Below is an article that goes into further detail about this bacterial disease.

http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[Madness]

Wow, cant believe that topics like "what should I put in my 120 gal", or "will my GT work with my RD", get loads of hits, but when someone is in desperate need of some ideas or advice. I get nothing. Thank you for your assistance RD, & Modest Man. I just expected more with so many of you out there.

 

[Modest_Man]

Well MFK is the "nice fish" capital of fish forums. :/ Has there been any change? Protruding more or less?

 

[Madness]

Well MFK is the "nice fish" capital of fish forums. :/ Has there been any change? Protruding more or less?

Really?

Everything is the same. He does not show discomfort, he still swims and plays. He has toys. In fact he and his mate spawned yesterday. And continued to spawn while I did a water change. I will just keep up with what I am doing, and hope for the best.