High nitrates

duanes

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Below is the part I took to be the important conclusion of the authors, and what I refer to in my first link

rthermore, following
Kincheloe et al.Õs(1979)
recommendation, we consider that a maximum
level of 2.0 mg NO3-N/l would be appropriate for pro-
tecting the most sensitive freshwater species. In the case
of marine invertebrates and fishes, we consider that the
proposed maximum level of 20 mg NO3
 

HarleyK

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Below is the part I took to be the important conclusion of the authors, and what I refer to in my first link

rthermore, following
Kincheloe et al.Õs(1979)
recommendation, we consider that a maximum
level of 2.0 mg NO3-N/l would be appropriate for pro-
tecting the most sensitive freshwater species. In the case
of marine invertebrates and fishes, we consider that the
proposed maximum level of 20 mg NO3
I really think we are on the same page. If you want to breed salmonidae, you ought to keep nitrates below 2 mg N/ L, ie below 9 mg nitrates/ L.
For other species and for adult animals, however, nitrates appear to be of much less importance.

The NOAEL for channel cats means that there was no effect (and the first parameter investigated in toxicology is always body weight) at 396 mg nitrates/ L. That means they grew just fine for the a few months that they were observed.

Different species show different sensitivities. A fundamental principle in toxicology.

You talked about the thesis mentioning deformations.

As I said, I can't access the full document. Can you please elaborate? I can't find that. Thanks.


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HarleyK

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I'm not a chemist, so I won't try to interpret these results. Perhaps these studies can tell us if 100 ppm nitrates is no big deal.
I'll read this later, tough to browse the links on an iPhone. But I'll make sure to check it out, thanks!!!



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Dieselhybrid

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Curious as I follow this. That is the conversion for mg/L to ppm. Our are these three same values?

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duanes

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mg/L are considered the same as ppm.
And yes, we may be on the same page, I believe our discussion is healthy, as in all of science, skepticism on all sides is the rule, not the exception.
The way I read the research, at very low concentrations, the authors of a number of studies seem to be concluding that deformations such as curved spines, etc, etc in fry can be caused by elevated nitrate.
This also coincides loosely (at least to me) with the effects baby formula made from water with nitrate concentrations of 10ppm or higher, such as blue baby syndrome in human children under 2 years.
I have been interested in the effects of elevated nitrate for a number of years.
Before I became "obsessive" about water changes, I would notice spawns in my tanks, with more deformations/mutations in my fry, than I thought normal.
After changing my water change routine, the percentages seemed to lessen considerably.
And I have received groups of fry from experienced aquarists, that on close examination had a high percentage of major, and minor deformities, knowing full well their was no ammonia burn, and parent fish appeared to be perfect, and the aquaristic standard practices were of high quality.
My conclusion is that nitrate, although thought to be benign, may be the overlooked
culprit.
I believe for most casual aquarists, an elevated nitrate level may be of little to no consequence.
But when dealing with and breeding sensitive species that are rheophillic nature (I prefer to keep Theraps , Chuco and Tomocichla), and/or come from other pristine conditions, (waters with nitrate levels of <1ppm), slight elevation can become a problem.
The great lakes of Nicaragua, rift lakes of Africa, and unpolluted rivers around the world normally have nitrate concentrations of <1ppm.
In my job, I tested raw Lake Michigan water, other than during sewage overflow events, the raw water would test <1ppm.
And as you know, we see many posts here, of stress induced diseases such as HITH, or bloat, where "all" parameters are "normal".
My feeling is the acceptable aquarium concentration norm for nitrate, is not low enough.
 
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