No one used the word emaciated,except you.All I was saying is that a fish being prepped for shipping shouldn't be thin....not an already healthy fish.
How should I handle this?
- Thread starter Aw3s0m3
- Start date
Ok well he's had all day to get back to me, which he has been really good about in the past, but absolutely nothing today and I emailed him at 9:30am. It is now 8:46pm. It was from Jeff Rapps whom is extremely well known in our community and I have never heard anything bad about him from anyone. Never thought I would receive a fish from him in this condition.
To clear things up, when I picked him up and opened the bag, he looked healthy from the top down. Once I released him in my tank I realized something wasn't right. It didn't try to move at all. Just slowly floated down to the bottom. He isn't emaciated but he was extremely thin. I asked Rapps what he has been feeding him. His response was that it was eating a lot of bloodworms. For a 10-12" goonch, bloodworms should not have even been an option. It's belly was extremely sunken in and it's body was in this stuck U position. When it tried to swim to different spots it couldn't. It could only wiggle around Imagine us laying on our belly's trying to move forward without moving our arms or legs. That's how this fish was moving. I told him my concern on day 1 and his response, copy and pasted from the email
Hi Ivan.
I just looked at the video. I don't know why he's behaving like that. Without a doubt I've seen him swim (in the awkward way that Bagarius with modified their swim bladder swim), but nonetheless, he swam and ate.
I hope it's a post shipping-stress related condition that does not permanently effect his motor functions.
Glad to hear he ate. Other fish look great - by the way.
Thanks jeff
This was all he said about the subject and I said I'd keep him updated.
For those of you that say them not moving is normal, I have kept many Goonch cats and currently have a 12" B. suchus, 9" B. bagarius, and a 2" B. rutilus/sp. dwarf and even though they don't move much, they still move to a spot in front of the powerhead at night then retreat back to their previous spot during the day and they could at least slash to the side to grab passing food on their own. This guy can't even do that. I have to physically place the food on a feeding stick and place it in front of him so that he can eat. Its a lot of work for supposedly a "perfectly healthy" fish.
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To clear things up, when I picked him up and opened the bag, he looked healthy from the top down. Once I released him in my tank I realized something wasn't right. It didn't try to move at all. Just slowly floated down to the bottom. He isn't emaciated but he was extremely thin. I asked Rapps what he has been feeding him. His response was that it was eating a lot of bloodworms. For a 10-12" goonch, bloodworms should not have even been an option. It's belly was extremely sunken in and it's body was in this stuck U position. When it tried to swim to different spots it couldn't. It could only wiggle around Imagine us laying on our belly's trying to move forward without moving our arms or legs. That's how this fish was moving. I told him my concern on day 1 and his response, copy and pasted from the email
Hi Ivan.
I just looked at the video. I don't know why he's behaving like that. Without a doubt I've seen him swim (in the awkward way that Bagarius with modified their swim bladder swim), but nonetheless, he swam and ate.
I hope it's a post shipping-stress related condition that does not permanently effect his motor functions.
Glad to hear he ate. Other fish look great - by the way.
Thanks jeff
This was all he said about the subject and I said I'd keep him updated.
For those of you that say them not moving is normal, I have kept many Goonch cats and currently have a 12" B. suchus, 9" B. bagarius, and a 2" B. rutilus/sp. dwarf and even though they don't move much, they still move to a spot in front of the powerhead at night then retreat back to their previous spot during the day and they could at least slash to the side to grab passing food on their own. This guy can't even do that. I have to physically place the food on a feeding stick and place it in front of him so that he can eat. Its a lot of work for supposedly a "perfectly healthy" fish.
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Wow, so after not responding for 11 hrs you decided that what, he must be ignoring you? I guess no one here has a life, and everyone spends 24/7 on their computer. Think about it, that's being pretty unreasonable.
Secondly, the stress of transport can trigger many ailments in fish, this is pretty standard with any species of finfish. The dealing of buying and selling of live creatures is not a 100% guarantee type of business, and all parties involved know that, or at least should. That's why every vendor has a return policy, and why every customer should read that policy before entering into a transaction with an online vendor.
If you felt that the fish arrived in such poor condition, a condition that (apparently now?) is unacceptable to you, then you should have started enquiring about a refund on day 1, not waiting 30 days then taking it public when the vendor doesn't respond to your email within 1/2 a day. The fact is that you accepted the fish, and by doing so you pretty much lost the option to return it down the road when you are no longer satisfied with your purchase.
FYI - Prazipro is pretty much only effective on a few internal ailments, such as flatworms, tapeworms, and flukes. Plenty of other pathogens that could have set in during or after the stress of transport, that Prazi would have had zero effect on.
Good luck.
Secondly, the stress of transport can trigger many ailments in fish, this is pretty standard with any species of finfish. The dealing of buying and selling of live creatures is not a 100% guarantee type of business, and all parties involved know that, or at least should. That's why every vendor has a return policy, and why every customer should read that policy before entering into a transaction with an online vendor.
If you felt that the fish arrived in such poor condition, a condition that (apparently now?) is unacceptable to you, then you should have started enquiring about a refund on day 1, not waiting 30 days then taking it public when the vendor doesn't respond to your email within 1/2 a day. The fact is that you accepted the fish, and by doing so you pretty much lost the option to return it down the road when you are no longer satisfied with your purchase.
FYI - Prazipro is pretty much only effective on a few internal ailments, such as flatworms, tapeworms, and flukes. Plenty of other pathogens that could have set in during or after the stress of transport, that Prazi would have had zero effect on.
Good luck.
I don't think that 11 hours to get back to someone is unreasonable. If Jeff is running a business he should be checking his email frequently at the minimum twice a day. Why would he need to be near his computer when we live in an age where email can be accessed through a cell phone in a matter of seconds , it isn't that difficult .
in fact , I check this website using my phone through out the day and I am nowhere near a computer. Hopefully , Jeff responds soon so you can get this all sorted out.
Obviously you haven't read the entire post. The condition the fish was NEVER acceptable to me but my concern was getting the fish back to health. Im not gonna repeat what you could have easily just read except that I notified him that very same day and that we'd stay in touch.
12hrs is plenty of time for a working business man to respond to an email especially since I have worked with him in the past. He has never taken more than an hour to respond to any emails I have ever sent him so going the entire day, yes 1 day now since it has been 24hrs, and still no response is just bad business. If you have an online business, expect emails and expect to check your email frequently. I never said anything about him ignoring me, I just said he had till the end of the night. There doesn't have to be any thought behind that. It is just a timeframe
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12hrs is plenty of time for a working business man to respond to an email especially since I have worked with him in the past. He has never taken more than an hour to respond to any emails I have ever sent him so going the entire day, yes 1 day now since it has been 24hrs, and still no response is just bad business. If you have an online business, expect emails and expect to check your email frequently. I never said anything about him ignoring me, I just said he had till the end of the night. There doesn't have to be any thought behind that. It is just a timeframe
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I read the entire post, I got it all the first time. Including ......
Let me guess, both you & podzy are single, and don't have kids. Yes? Trust me, I've owned my own business (x2), one was partially online, the other was completely online ..... and sometimes sheet happens. Sometimes I even buggered off for a couple of days (gasp!) and emails, text, phone calls, were put on ignore. Period.
If you don't feel that waiting 11 hrs for a response is unreasonable before outing a vendor on an online forum, try doing what Jeff does then get back to me in 10 yrs.
I just don't get the whining in public when this still could (and potentially can) be resolved with the vendor. WTF? !!!!!Answer my email or I will out you on MFK!!! might not get you the results that you were wanting.
Again, good luck.
That must be Jeff's fault, too?
Let me guess, both you & podzy are single, and don't have kids. Yes? Trust me, I've owned my own business (x2), one was partially online, the other was completely online ..... and sometimes sheet happens. Sometimes I even buggered off for a couple of days (gasp!) and emails, text, phone calls, were put on ignore. Period.
If you don't feel that waiting 11 hrs for a response is unreasonable before outing a vendor on an online forum, try doing what Jeff does then get back to me in 10 yrs.
I just don't get the whining in public when this still could (and potentially can) be resolved with the vendor. WTF? !!!!!Answer my email or I will out you on MFK!!! might not get you the results that you were wanting.
Again, good luck.
I know he was supposed to leave this morning for a big fish convention in wash. dc aquamania. Im sure he was busy getting fish loaded up for the trip.
I don't know if this was covered but why not call him instead of email? Businesses respond much better to phone calls then emails.
I am not trying to pile on here but really one day is not allowing enough time for Jeff to get back to you. I deal with dentists in my business and believe me it can take days for one of them to return a call. As you already stated you have a relationship with Jeff and you have never heard negative things about him. Give him time and I`m sure he will respond to you. For the record, I have never ordered from him and do not know him other than his reputation.
It probably does`nt relate too much to your situation but years ago I drove close to four hours, from Detroit to Canton, OH to buy a cichlid from Don D. A guy who brought many new cichlids into the hobby back in the eighties (some of you older guys know who this is). The fish was a rarity at the time and cost me $100 plus gas and time. It looked healthy when I picked it up but refused all foods offered when I got it home. My water was good and to this day I don`t know why it crashed but it did. Within a couple weeks it was dead. It hurt but I figured it was my tough luck. It was the only cichlid to ever do that to me (I`ve had marine fish do it though). Anyway it is part of keeping these awesome creatures, sometimes we win and sometimes...............
It probably does`nt relate too much to your situation but years ago I drove close to four hours, from Detroit to Canton, OH to buy a cichlid from Don D. A guy who brought many new cichlids into the hobby back in the eighties (some of you older guys know who this is). The fish was a rarity at the time and cost me $100 plus gas and time. It looked healthy when I picked it up but refused all foods offered when I got it home. My water was good and to this day I don`t know why it crashed but it did. Within a couple weeks it was dead. It hurt but I figured it was my tough luck. It was the only cichlid to ever do that to me (I`ve had marine fish do it though). Anyway it is part of keeping these awesome creatures, sometimes we win and sometimes...............
A big fish convention in DC? What nerve! Who the hell does this guy think he is? 
This thread reminds me of a past customer who was boiling over in a voice mail after I had "ignored" him for 3 days, over a referral that he wanted for some other business that had nothing to even do with me. Short story was when I returned his call almost a week later I let him know that I had been rushed to a major hospital 2 hrs away for heart surgery, after suffering a heart attack. From the sound coming out of the other end of the phone I'm pretty sure that he felt like a complete DB.
Moral of the story is that in life sometimes sheet happens that's beyond anyones control. Most online vendors with solid reps didn't get there by selling a few fish here & there, and given the chance almost all of them will make things right if/when they need to.
This thread reminds me of a past customer who was boiling over in a voice mail after I had "ignored" him for 3 days, over a referral that he wanted for some other business that had nothing to even do with me. Short story was when I returned his call almost a week later I let him know that I had been rushed to a major hospital 2 hrs away for heart surgery, after suffering a heart attack. From the sound coming out of the other end of the phone I'm pretty sure that he felt like a complete DB.
Moral of the story is that in life sometimes sheet happens that's beyond anyones control. Most online vendors with solid reps didn't get there by selling a few fish here & there, and given the chance almost all of them will make things right if/when they need to.
