I think we are being persuaded by the wrong people

[Kittiee Katt]

RD. , everyone's opinion is going to differ somehow, and this is where ours differ. If I could guarantee that my animals would be looked after, I would gladly give my life for theirs. What makes my life any more important than theirs? The fact that I know when I'm causing things to suffer? That doesn't make me the more important being. "Would you give your life for that same tetra?" It's funny you say that as in May I went to hospital, because I risked my life for an animal. I was at a friends house for a 21st and almost everyone was drunk. One guy picked her cat up by the tail to "use as a lasso", so I flew him. He was bigger and stronger than me, and he kicked the crap out of me. He almost caused my one of my kidneys to rupture by kicking me.. But in the end I think it was worth every bruise, scratch and break. The cat was okay, didn't get hurt after that, and he's now in jail. Not because of what he done to the cat, but for the damage caused to a 22yr old girl. If I'm willing to go to hospital for my friends cat, just imagine what I'd do for mine. On the other hand, if my 15yr old sister was having her head kicked in, I wouldn't intervene unless she was nearly dead, because no doubt that shes done something, at some point to deserve that beating. Animals don't do anything except what nature programmed them to do, most of our species seems to think think that because we can talk and reason that we are the superior species, when we clearly are not.. Equality, should apply for every race, gender, sexuality, age and species in my eyes. I don't believe that the earth needs people, the animals here don't need us, we need them. We need everything this planet can give us, it's trees its rocks its animals. Why are we pretending that it needs us? The planet existed before people, and given that our species doesn't cause its end it'll still exist when we've gone the way of the woolly mammoth..

I don't care if people think I'm crazy, because I know I'm crazy and I'm crazy on a level others couldn't even imagine.

 

[RD.]

This being a fish forum, I asked a specific fish question. Would you give your life for that same tetra?

That answer should pretty much decide in my mind what level of crazy you are at.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

wild bill I see where your coming from and agree that it would suck if I couldn't keep my pets, but like ehh I also couldn't care if the pets I have are the last pets I keep. One thing ehh said (probably the smartest idea yet) was that prices in the pet trade need to be higher, $80 for a hamster sounds stupid, but at least then the only people buying them would be people who really want hamsters. If I had to pay 60 bucks for a betta to ensure that idiots weren't buying them to keep in vase's I would. If it meant that my small hikari bags were $45 instead of 10, so be it.

I agree that PETA go way way way overboard sometimes, but I personally see pets as our equals. If someone visits me and pushes my cat off the chair so that 'they' can sit down, I tell them to leave. This house belongs to my cats, its their house. I only live here because I have animals, and my animals need a home. I think you should start a new thread, about how to unite as hobbyists against extreme ARA's that want to take our pets, try to get everyone on the same page about it work out what the majority thinks and go from there. As you said, if we squabble among ourselves, they've won without even a battle. If we as hobbyists can come up with a general unwritten ( or written if you want I guess) Fishkeeping Code Of Practice of sorts, just some general guidelines that idiots don't think are important, and encourage other hobbyists to unite with similar views and a focus on one issue at a time, we may stand a chance. Every rule society has, or have had, are based around 'majority of people think this is fair' so why not come up with something that resembles what the majority of people want, and put it in place so that when extreme ARA's try to destroy our hobby, all the hobbyists, fresh and salt water alike, are all arguing the same thing.. I think that is where we should start.

And again.. Just personal opinion..

 

[wild bill]

It appears with your reasoning he should be in jail for what he did to the cat not you.
I don't like to get snarky but I am really begining to question how well ehh can read. What I was saying was that his reasoning puts him in the same boat as the animal rights and he may be leading us to the end of our hobby. Ehh say hello to Ingrid Newkirk for me.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

RD. , yes I am the highest level of crazy, if I knew that the tetra was going to be looked after without me, yes I would. I don't see what makes my life any more important than any of my 30 tetras. However if no one could look after the tetra but me I don't know what I'd do, that's one of those "I'll never know until it happens" type things.

If I had other pets that depended on me other than that tetra then that's a different story. I wouldn't make 40+ suffer for the life of one, that's just stupid. However I still don't see why I'm more important than any of my pets..

 

[wild bill]

I said it before and I will say it again thatis my goal here to unite us as a force. How ever when it comes to the government majority means nothing only the loudest voice. This too was pointed out earlier. We don't want the government involved in our hobby but they will take it away to quiet the ART's. This is why I am hoping we will all wake up and realize we are probably losing our hobby as we speak.

 

[RD.]

I don't think that you are crazy Ebbi, I just think that you are very young, and immature. It's all good.

Bill - I think that you are underrating the pet industry - as a whole they are more powerful, and more wealthy, than many countries. Many many BILLIONS of $$$$ are taken in each year by the pet industry, they aren't going to allow the flow of that cash to cease due to some fanatics, no matter how well organized they may be.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

It appears with your reasoning he should be in jail for what he did to the cat not you.
I don't like to get snarky but I am really begining to question how well ehh can read. What I was saying was that his reasoning puts him in the same boat as the animal rights and he may be leading us to the end of our hobby.

Yes I do think he should be in there for what happened to the cat, he could of snapped the poor things spine. I do see some of ehhs points, like prices needing to be higher in the pet trade. I don't agree with everything ehh says though. At the end of the day I'd love for my future kids/grandkids to know the joy that pets can bring to our lives, especially fish. But I still believe that pets are our equals, and that every Tom, Fred and Harry shouldn't just be able to have pets because they want them, and I'd personally rather that no one keeps pets before I'd see idiots with animals.
.. But again, that's just my opinion. Animals that we breed specifically for food are a completely different story, if it was born to be eaten then by all rights, eat it!

 

[ehh]

I personally wouldn't mind if the pet industry went under. If my current pets where the last I were to ever own I would be ok with that.

It sounds as though ehh could care less if he or anyone else had pets.

Then...

I don't like to get snarky but I am really begining to question how well ehh can read.

I made myself quite clear the first time. And I have the reading comprehension problem?

What I was saying was that his reasoning puts him in the same boat as the animal rights and he may be leading us to the end of our hobby. Ehh say hello to Ingrid Newkirk for me.

I don't know who that is.
Again, too many animals die at the hands of idiots every day. If the hobby ended I promise you I wouldn't be too sad. I'd probably be more happy that little Timmy will not have a chance to take home those neons and subjugate them to a week long life in an uncycled tank to slowly die from ammonia poisoning. Then timmys parents can say "fish live short lives, we'll just buy you more."
I would like to keep owning fish. But I would also like for an osacr to cost closer to 100$ than 6$.
Read carefully so I don't have to repeat myself again.

 

[dmopar74]

Everything is eaten somewhere in the world...