Large water changes

[SimonL]

Simply you put, you can acclimate a fish safely in a bag of water, or a 5g bucket of water that you used to transport the fish, or in 50g of water.

Of course you can. That's not what the initial debate was about. You are using a different argument to support your initial assertion.

We are simply saying it's a better idea, that when moving a tank, to try to keep water conditions as similar as possible. One way is not totally wrong or right.

You could...
-Move all the tank water and have 100% the same chemistry
-Emulate a big water change and bring half the water
-Move none of the water and slowly acclimate the fish to the new conditions
-Move none of the water and not acclimate the fish at all.

All of these ways are possible. No single one is guaranteed to save or kill your fish. I, when advising people on this forum, especially when I have no idea what their water chemistry is like, tend to er on the side of caution.

I'll agree to disagree here, after 15 pages, we're not going anywhere.

 

[Zander_The_RBP]

Jcardona- I'm nt agreeing with that thread or disagreeing with you, just thought I would bring thread up as so far on this topic there has yet to be scientific evidence supporting either side, just what ppl post about their past experiences.

Simply you put, you can acclimate a fish safely in a bag of water, or a 5g bucket of water that you used to transport the fish, or in 50g of water.

As long as there is enough water to cover the fish its not going to matter how much water you have. Obviously if you use drip acclimation ( which i use) Having just enough water for teh fish to sit in is recommended you want the water to be 95% the new water and (5% or less) the old water. I must stress that you need to make this process slow (couple of hours preferably)

I agree with everything Jcardona said. People don't realise this but fish actualy pee constantly. In Freshwater fish their skin acts as a semipermeable membrane and constantly allows water in, because the inside of thier bodies has a higher salt content. Energy is constantly expended in order to send the water out of the body (also removing waste such as ammonia in the process). This process is basicaly calibrated to the surrounding hardness of the water they are in. A sudden change in hardness and they are expelling too much or too little water and this can cause numerous problems, sometimes its just slight stress othertimes it can be whole organ failure. While it probably only takes a short time (probably a couple of hours but don't quote me on that) to adjust its natural osmoregulation sometimes the sudden influx of water (or of salt/minerals) is enough to permanently damage organs and tissues leading to death.

 

[Piscine]

Uh not at all. I'll still do things my way and youll still contribute nothingness to any thread on mfk. His post is just as valid as RD's in the other thread be aide neither are scientists in a lab w proven data. I have spent 2 hrs on dripping rays from 7-8ph and have spent 10min dripping them. Ive done this more than once with no bad effects. Ive dropped aros in right away w no effects.

Do you any experience w anything other than riding the bandwagon of a higher poster?

And Simon's posts were valid as well. Post count or length of membership has no bearing on anything I post. Also, my posts are contributory as of late. I had some issues with some members in the pasts, but have since refrained from taunting in return.

I can't say the same for any of your posts. You have twisted everyone's words into whatever you know will get the biggest rise out of them, and that, my friend, is trolling. I am not a moderator, and because of that I have nothing else to say to you pertaining to this thread. I wish you luck with your methods and hope the best for your fish.

 

[dayak]

do WC weekly while everything else is stable with low nitrate is hardcore regardless whether its 10 or 100% WC.
save water and make love LOL

 

[jcardona1]

His post is just as valid as RD's in the other thread be aide neither are scientists in a lab w proven data.

RD and I are saying the exact same thing. From your link:

so unless the TDS is way off there's no real concern there either [...] What one really needs to pay attention to is TDS (total dissolved solids). Moving fish from water with low TDS to high TDS is usually tolerated fairly well, where as moving a fish from high TDS to low TDS can often cause a great deal of osmotic stress, even death.

Moral of the story; if you haven't killed a fish from plop and drop, consider yourself lucky that the hardness/TDS was similar between the two sources of water.

 

[Yellow_Perch]

I do below 50%

 

[leeishom]

25% every 3 or 4 days.

 

[creepyoldguy]

Jcardona- could you post the rest of RDs thread? I can't on my phone, or don't know how

 

[jcardona1]

Jcardona- could you post the rest of RDs thread? I can't on my phone, or don't know how

Here you go. In my opinion, it's a little contradictory. He says plop and drop is the safest way and you should never drip, but then goes on to say if your TDS is very different you can kill your fish...

The main reason why one should never use the drip method, is due to the fact that the water in the bag IS funky. Drop & plop is the safest manner in which to acclimatize fish, no matter where they come from, or how long they have been in the bag. A small swing in temp will have little to no affect on fish either, especially if one is going from cooler to warmer, which is typically the case. pH shock is non existent, so unless the TDS is way off there's no real concern there either. I have seen fish imported from all points on the globe, Africa, SE Asia, Europe, etc, with some of these fish valued in the thousands of $$$ (for a single specimen) and every last one of them went straight from the bag, straight to a holding tank, and I have never seen a single mortality from doing so.

The term "pH shock" is a total misnomer.

What one really needs to pay attention to is TDS (total dissolved solids). Moving fish from water with low TDS to high TDS is usually tolerated fairly well, where as moving a fish from high TDS to low TDS can often cause a great deal of osmotic stress, even death.

If one looks at this from even a common sense approach, if what some people stated about pH shock was true, most fish being imported in from outside of the country would be dead long before you opened the bag, as the vast majority of exporters do not use long term pH stabilizing agents when they bag the fish, and after 24-48 hrs the pH in those bags has definitely dropped, in many cases by a significant amount.

In shipping situations this is a good thing, as the lower pH protects the fish from ammonia. Once the bag is opened, and C02 escapes, the (fish safe) ammonium, converts to ammonia, which can be toxic to fish at higher pH values. Hence the reason that most importers pay more attention to the water temp of the bag than anything else, and in the vast majority of cases simply open the bags, net the fish out, and drop them into their holding tanks. Experienced commercial importers learned a long time ago that the quicker you get the fish out of that toxic soup in a bag, the better.

 

[creepyoldguy]

Yes that's true.