Live vs Prepared vs Pellet

[Conner]

Why are people so quick to jump on the hater train?

Living organisms contain a large amount of water. It's a fact. Water contains no nutrients. It's a fact.
Take a goldfish or whatever you feed your other fish and then compare the nutritional value of that fish to pellets of the same weight you will find out that the pellets will contain more nutrition.


No, we don't have any rosy reds here, but we use goldfish as feeders just as much as people do in the U.S. Almost all fish here are imported from Asia except those caught wild in Africa/S. America and other places.
These fishfarms produce fish at a high rate to supply the world with a lot of fish at a low price.
Even if gars are more resistant to parasites and other nasty stuff than other fishes there is always a risk.

I'm not saying that it's bad to use feeders. Just that pellets and similar foods contains more nutrients. And I am not saying that fish in the wild are unhealthy either just because they eat other fish.


You can continue the if you like now.

Pellets may contain more concentrated nutrients in a smaller package, but that's not necessarily better. Look what processed foods are doing to the human population. Just because you can pack more of certain nutrients into a pellet doesn't mean the pellet is better for you (or fish) even with the added risk of disease or parasites with live feeders.

The harm comes because pellets generally are not a complete nutritional replacement for live (or at least prepared) whole foods. There are a lot of elements that whole foods contain that pellets will not, and those are essential for a healthy, nutritionally balanced diet, regardless of what the pellet makers, or even most health organizations, will tell you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't feed pellets, because they do contain a lot of nutrients, and make a good daily feed, interspersed with whole foods.

 

[RD.]

The harm comes because pellets generally are not a complete nutritional replacement for live (or at least prepared) whole foods. There are a lot of elements that whole foods contain that pellets will not, and those are essential for a healthy, nutritionally balanced diet, regardless of what the pellet makers, or even most health organizations, will tell you.

Name a single element that is not found in a high quality pellet feed, vs frozen or live feed.

Feeding live/frozen is fine, if you are supplementing that frozen/live food with the proper balance of vitamins & trace elements. Feeding a tank raised or store bought feeder is not even remotely close to what wild fish would consume in the wild. And yes, pathogens are also a concern with live feeders.

The largest freshwater carnivores in North America, Acipenser transmontanus (White Sturgeon), are raised on commercial farms exclusively on pellet food that typically consists of 40-45% crude protein, and exceed both size & weight of the vast majority of tropical fish kept in captivity.

The example below is just a youngster.

 

[Lepisosteus platyrhincus]

raise a monster gar just on pellets, tell me the result.

fact is just plain pellets will NOT do. tell me if those sturgeon live thier full life span. Ill answer for u. no. I could eat and grow on just cheeseburgers, but im not gonna live long

 

[Polypterus]

Pellets may contain more concentrated nutrients in a smaller package, but that's not necessarily better. Look what processed foods are doing to the human population. Just because you can pack more of certain nutrients into a pellet doesn't mean the pellet is better for you (or fish) even with the added risk of disease or parasites with live feeders.

The harm comes because pellets generally are not a complete nutritional replacement for live (or at least prepared) whole foods. There are a lot of elements that whole foods contain that pellets will not, and those are essential for a healthy, nutritionally balanced diet, regardless of what the pellet makers, or even most health organizations, will tell you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't feed pellets, because they do contain a lot of nutrients, and make a good daily feed, interspersed with whole foods.

Conner what are you talking about? Really I'm not sure you know...

Also the the biggest issue with Farmed feeders is the fact they are packed with copper medications and other chemical treatments / antibiotics rather than the parasite issue. They are also generally poorly fed themselves and provide little of the nutrition a wild fish would obtain. These store bought feeders are nothing but antibiotic laced twinkies compared to a well formulated pellet feed. Farm raised Shrimp, fish and other items while not as heavily dosed due to Food laws that restrict such things still are not Whole foods when fed and lack full nutritional quality.

In all reality when it comes to gars it is, as was suggested already, it is best to provide the fish with a varied diet from different sources. This means variety of items across the board. Something I will suggest against always is Pet store bought feeders. Instead collect your own or obtain them from a bait shop that locally collects. Feed WHOLE frozen fish, that means entrails and all for even better results.

 

[Polypterus]

raise a monster gar just on pellets, tell me the result.

fact is just plain pellets will NOT do. tell me if those sturgeon live thier full life span. Ill answer for u. no. I could eat and grow on just cheeseburgers, but im not gonna live long

My Shortnosed and tropicals usually eat nothing but and they are certainly not small fish nor unhealthy. Gator I currently have is around 20 inches and was raised mostly on a variety of pellets. Plain pellets will actually do just fine if one knows the formulas for what a fish needs and then uses the correct diet formulations. This has been actually proven very well and there is a whole load of documentation to prove this as fact as well.

I'm not sure what your basing your assumption on here but your very incorrect about equated Pelleted feed with "cheezburgers" or whatever and stating that a fish can not live long or achieve a full potential on that diet alone.

 

[KillaFish]

Well currently there are still feeder minnows left in his pond. Once the last one goes, I'm thinking of trying other feed items. I intend to try prepared, pellets, and live prey. I'm thinking of trying out dwarf clawed frogs since frogs are really nutritious prey.

 

[RD.]

I'm not sure what your basing your assumption on here but your very incorrect about equated Pelleted feed with "cheezburgers" or whatever and stating that a fish can not live long or achieve a full potential on that diet alone.

I believe it equates to the old adage, ignorance is bliss.

Most sturgeon in captivity don't even begin to reach sexual maturity until they are pushing 10 yrs of age, so the commercial farmers that are raising them for caviar production most certainly are not feeding for short term results.

 

[RD.]

My advice when dealing with fresh fish products, buy fresh, freeze for 48 hrs at 0F (-18C) to destroy any potential parasites, and use up within 30 days or so. Freezing will not destroy all micro-organisms, so there is still some risk involved in feeding frozen products, but freezing certainly minimizes those risks.

Freezing tends to also increase the concentration of thiaminase in tissue, so the shorter the duration in the freezer, the better. Little is known as to how thiaminase affects various species, and according to various studies the amounts found (even within the same species of fish) tend to vary as well.


Most public aquariums tend to supplement to avoid deficiencies. (especially B1, vitamin E, and vitamin C) IMO fish kept in captivity require full vitamin & trace mineral supplementation to some degree or another, which is where a high quality pellet can become worth its weight in gold. (even if it means stuffing some pellets into your frozen fish)

Also note that even frozen fish that have been unthawed under refrigeration , should be fed within 24 hrs. (or discarded)


A good read on this subject can be found in the following link.

FEEDING CAPTIVE PISCIVOROUS ANIMALS:
NUTRITIONAL ASPECTS OF FISH AS FOOD

http://www.nagonline.net/Technical Papers/NAGFS00597Fish-JONIFEB24,2002MODIFIED.pdf


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[Polypterus]

I believe it equates to the old adage, ignorance is bliss.

Most sturgeon in captivity don't even begin to reach sexual maturity until they are pushing 10 yrs of age, so the commercial farmers that are raising them for caviar production most certainly are not feeding for short term results.

To bring it back to gar. Commercial Gar producers are also just using pelleted feed during the maintenance stage of production. There is much information about this with Alligator and Tropical gar aquaculture that is available.

 

[Sidrock]

Some of the guys commenting on this thread are experts.. Some are just newbies voicing their opinion.

I really don't see why people should get so rude and sarcastic so quickly without any provocation...

@OP: You will see most experienced fish-keepers will recommend a "variety" in diet (live and prepared and pellets). Although to get Gars to eat pellets is a non-trivial exercise.

Mine were started off with live Bloodworms, then they moved to fresh sea-food (shrimps, jumbo krill etc etc).

Good luck,
Sid