Repashy Superfood (for cichlids)?

[Allen Repashy]

Hi RD,

Thanks for the welcome. I actually just have a "google alert" subscription that I have the word "repashy" subscribed into, so google sends me an email anytime the name comes up in a search. Really cool tool when you have a weird name like mine that nobody else has

Sometime tomorrow afternoon, I hope to get the site updated. Not sure if I can post a link on here or not because I am not sure of the forum rules here and know a lot of forums consider stuff like that advertising. I can post my press release here as well as analysis in a thread if it's permitted.

I understand your argument about water, but when you consider the hydrated gel has a similar water to dry ratio as whole meat or most fresh plant matter, then I hope we can agree that this is not to much water and is not going to reduce the ability to process nutrients. Dry ingredients in the gut are going to be hydrated to this same level before they are digested. Fish of course, are different then everything else, because they have no problem with hydration.

In reptiles, feeding dry pellets to lizards for example, can be disastrous because without supplemental water, it can dehydrate the animal and cause impaction. Kind of like the "Got Milk" commercials

The final formulas uses no corn flour, a I use only isolated pea protein which as you mention, is heat processed, and concentrated rice protein. as well as heat stabilized rice bran. These ingredients are only in some of my formulas, not all. I don't use any whole pea or whole rice flour. Of course all plant matter contains some starch, but my point is that it is not in my formulas for the sole purpose of binding the food together under extrusion or flaking.

The heat processing you mention can and does effect the inhibitors and other compounds in ingredients like soy, but reducing soy to the point of it being a non issue is a whole other debate .

This same heat also effects everything in the formula when your heat comes from extruding a pellet for example, so it does depend when the heat comes. When heat treating an ingredient to make an isolate or concentrate, like soy, pea, or rice before it is used as an ingredient, you are not heating the vitamins and other potentially sensitive ingredients in the formula.

The gelling agents I use only require a minute at temps above 85c to activate the gelling, so the formula is not exposed to the high heat of most extrusion and rolling manufacturing processes. I know there are low temp extruders, there are low starch foods, but the majority of fish foods on the market use or exceed 10% starch, or in my opinion worse, wheat gluten.

I am not saying that there aren't great pellets OR flakes on the market. There are some companies out there making great products. I do think though, that my formulas do have their place. I don't know if it is with "Monster Fish" or not, but I believe it will find its niche. I am not out to sell a mountain of food. I just really enjoy the learning process, and research it takes to develop products and as I hope you realize through future communication, the passion of it. I am not going to say that I don't hope it help pays a few bills, but that really isn't what I am about.

There aren't a lot of company owners who do their own research and formulate their own products. And not many that will come on a public forum that they don't own, and openly talk about their formulas.

Yeah, I jumped on here because I felt like I needed to clear a few things up and defend myself a bit, but that isn't the only reason I go on forums. I use forums like this to design products based on feedback from real people.... here is one example. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/149862-new-gel-food-field-testing-testers.html

Ok..... I have been riding in the Desert and am beat.... gotta get some sleep.

Cheers, Allen

 

[RD.]

LOL, too funny about the google alert.

I'm not too sure if admin will allow you to post your press release here, but feel free to send me a PM with a link to your website when it's updated. I'm not in any way attempting to discourage anyone from trying your food, so please don't take my comments in a negative way. In the vast majority of applications I simply don't see any advantage in feeding a reconstituted dry powder food, over a quality pellet food, to a fish. How "natural" any of what we do in this hobby is highly subjective & open to individual interpretation.

I understand that feeding dry pellets to reptiles can be problematic, but with fish that isn't an issue, at least not if one is feeding a quality food. Feed conversion ratios as low as 1.1 (and lower) have been reached feeding pellet foods in aquaculture, and I don't see any gains in that area by feeding hydrated "wet" foods.

As far as extrusion temps, vitamin loss, etc.

Today there are pellet manufacturers that use nothing but premium raw ingredients, and extrude at what industry standards would be considered low temps, where the vitamin content of those raw ingredients is still largely intact at post processing.

"Amino acids, several vitamins, and inorganic nutrients are relatively stable to heat, moisture, and oxidation that occur under normal processing and storage conditions. Some of the vitamins are subject to some loss, however, and should be used in excess of the requirement."

NRC Nutrient Requirements of Fish 1993

I've seen post production nutritional analysis reports on the commercial pelleted fish food that I use (as well as other formulas), performed by non-biased 3rd party accredited institutions, so I'm well aware of just how little nutrient loss can actually take place via extrusion when things are done properly. IMO the beauty of pelleted food is that a manufacturer can fine tune the nutrient profile of his feed to any level that he chooses, utilizing both the raw ingredients, as well as additional fortification via supplements - just as you are doing. The fact that some manufacturers may fail in this area doesn't mean that we should throw the baby out with the bath water. When feeding a nutrient dense, extruded, sinking pellet, the amount of vitamin loss when tossed into ones aquarium is minuscule, unless that pellet sits in the water for an extended period of time, which shouldn't be happening if one is feeding properly. To me, this is a non-issue.

Also, there are currently pellet food manufacturers that also use algae based raw ingredients as binding agents, some of them just don't openly advertise that fact.


Again, best of luck with your new line of food.

 

[msjinkzd]

The press release will be posted, as I have been in on the formulas from the ground level. I will be selling them, and have tested them on over 50 species of fish, both small and large as well as specialized grazers, community fish, and even my monster fish. As mentioned in a previous post, Mazuri is a great diet. However, it only encompasses a small section of specialized feeders.

What Allen is doing is providing a range of diets for specialized feeders of many types. He has an aufwuchs replacement (Soilent green) which to me is the best diet I have ever fed for specialized feeders. I have tried about every pellet and every gel diet, including homemade recipes, on the market. I import from all over the world weekly and have about 85 tanks running. The diets, for my applications for young and breeding fish, have made HUGE impacts on how they thrive not only upon import, but also for growth. I deal with some fish, for instance Stiphodon percnopterygionus, who are known to be exceptionally difficult to feed. They dogpiled on this food, and had good response to mazuri as well. Another instance wiht my application where Allen's foods have really gone to the forefront are my obligate algae eaters. I bring in thousands of otocinclus catfish and nerite snails at a time. They wont' TOUCH mazuri foods, but Allen has engineered a pure vegan diet which they eat readily. Often with truly specialized grazers, its very difficult to find a food they will eat. This diet will not be a "replacement" for staple foods. Its very much a diet catered to breeders or specialized hobbyists. Its filling a void in the fish food market that has been unaddressed. High quality ingredients, stable ingredients, and specialized diets. Its not necessarily the end all be all of fish foods, but my hypancistrus have never looked better, my Scleromystax are having consistent growth, nerites are eating, otos are spawning, shrimp are doing phenomenally and I am very pleased. I have been privy to testing many foods at their junior stages. This is the first I ever felt strongly enough about to endorse, as Ted Judy feels as well. We are not getting kick backs, its just a good product. I hope that instead of being disparaging, you will see what is being offered.

 

[Aquanero]

Very interesting thread and I enjoyed reading all the information posted here. I might have an applacation for it, I'll have to give this some thought.

 

[Gatorxxx420]

Very interesting thread and I enjoyed reading all the information posted here. I might have an applacation for it, I'll have to give this some thought.

I agree and it does sound promising as an alternative for feeding fry. I wouldn't mind trying this out with my fry in the future as it could possibly help them grow faster as they can graze on it all day. I will never not feed my bigger fish pellets, this however could be excellent for fry and other smaller fish. But I will wait (since I have far fewer fish and tanks than most on this site) to see the shelf life of the finished product, may even go in on it with a friend and split the prepared amount to lessen the chances of wasting it.

 

[RD.]

I stated in my initial comment that gel foods can have their applications under certain circumstances, and I have no doubt that obligate algae eaters such as otocinclus catfish would certainly do far better on a more nutrionally balanced food such as this, compared to more traditional foods, including various fresh greens.

Having said that this is the CA/SA cichlid folder, and the OP was asking about cichlids, not obligate algae eaters such as oto's, and not species that are known to be exceptionally difficult to feed.

Would I feed this type of food to cichlid fry? No. Would I feed it to adult CA/SA cichlids, no. YMMV

 

[msjinkzd]

There is more than a diet for obligate algae eaters. It has broad applications, depending on which formula you are looking at. Ted Judy is using it with many cichlids. I am using it with Discus and dwarf cichlids. Once the official release has occured, I will list all the press release and the ingredient breakdowns. The first four diets should be released this weekend.

 

[flowerpower]

@Allen/Rachel, will it be possible to purchase the gelling agent on it's own? Alternatively, could I mix other pureed ingredients into the formula w/out ruining the consistency of the finished product? The ability to do either would be of great interest to me personally.

 

[Allen Repashy]

I would encourage anyone who has a specialized interest in any information that comes up on a particular subject to check out Google Alert For example, If you have a passion for a specific species of rare fish, and are looking for any new info or photos on the web, Google will search every day for you and email you when something pops up. Usually it is within a day or two of posting if it is on a site that has traffic and gets indexed by google.

Back to fish food...... I agree, that today there are a few pellet makers who are making great foods, but this is not the norm. A majority of "pet store" brands are adding starch (just for binding, not as byproducts of healthy ingredients) and, or gluten in levels around 20% solely for the purpose of binding foods or as fillers . I personally like the Xtreme line after researching quite a few manufacturers products and methods. They are getting their starch from good plant ingredients. Sticky Rice, or "Glutinous Rice" as it is often called. is that sticky stuff you see in a sushi roll. It contains a gluten like starch that is not actually gluten, but works very similar. IMHO I would say this is the best available grain binder one could use if it works in a similar way ( haven't researched it myself). Not sure if that is what they are using, but I would suspect it takes more than just regular rice to make a good pellet. one thing I can say for sure is that I don't like wheat products as a fish food ingredients.

Cost and time wise, you can't beat a pellet for feeding tanks with large numbers on large specimens. As pointed out, I didn't build my line around feeding this kind of fish. I enjoy finding solutions that fill niche needs, and believe that while accomplishing this, the amount of crossover into mainstream use is often much more than anticipated. I do think that the fry of even large species could benefit from the unique characteristics that the gels have to offer. RD, if you are breeding cichlids, I would like to invite you to at least give it a try. If not, then I hope we can just agree to disagree and move on to some good educated conversation about other food topics.

Cheers, Allen

 

[RD.]

I have no doubt that cichlids will eat this food. As previously stated, other than perhaps an increase in overall palatability with certain fish I simply don't see any advantage in feeding a reconstituted dry powder food, over a quality pellet food, to the vast majority of cichlid species. If I crush my pellets into a fine powder, and reconstitue them using a vegan algae substance such as agar-agar, am I somehow magically increasing the overall nutrient profile of that food? I think not.