The coloration on this spotted gar reminds me of the longnose gars with the red fins & hints of red in their bodies. Maybe the same gene(s) are being expressed as in those longnose gars except that the pattern & coloration of the spotted gar make it seem more unusual?
The Erythristic Gar Conundrum...
- Thread starter E_americanus
- Start date
as far as SPGs go, these individuals were definitely unusual; as is probably the case to some extent with the photos xander posted, you would have to see them in person to really see the difference...and we have seen more spotted gars than most people. this particular wild population had several oddballs, and given that they don't migrate from inland lake to inland lake, we are looking at a lot of pseudo-inbreeding within populations.
RE: the selective breeding in Asia - yes, this is how they are getting their variants, and also why most of those fishes are deformed or odd-looking in one way or another...super-short snouts, slanted snouts, disproportionate bodies.
again, overall, i am not convinced any of these fish are erythristic, maybe a little odd, but not "red morphs". there is an "alternate pattern" SPG that Richard and i frequently saw, but the fish i posted here was different from that too. i'll dig up the surprise fish that was found (not during our sampling unfortunately) at one of our lakes too sometime soon... --
--SRD
yes, this is why i have specifically told people to email me (solomonrdavid@gmail.com) as opposed to sending me PM's.--
--solomon
I agree with you Solomon, even with my limited knowledge on the subject. It seems too far off from the more obvious morphs
we see from time to time. This gar on Stones looks more like what I would expect.
http://stonesaquarium.blogspot.com/2012/09/erythristic-florida-gar.html
we see from time to time. This gar on Stones looks more like what I would expect.
http://stonesaquarium.blogspot.com/2012/09/erythristic-florida-gar.html
I would not consider that a true morph - it has the overall appearance of having had a diet high in shrimp, or something like that.
The "snow red" gar on Stones website is what I would expect from an ery. animal.
That said, I'd love to see more morphs / variations pictured. Thank you for sharing!
The "snow red" gar on Stones website is what I would expect from an ery. animal.
That said, I'd love to see more morphs / variations pictured. Thank you for sharing!
i think one of the points i am trying to make here is being missed (although good discussion overall, and thanks to those who have posted) - i don't consider either gar i have posted NOR the stones gars to be erythritic morphs, they have an odd pigmentation, yes, but from what we know and have seen (collectively or myself personally), i don't consider either to be true red morphs. it's just not the level of pigmentation that would be expected when compared to other conditions (and the representations of the condition in other animals).
i think the gar posted in the photo (SPG) is a much better representation of true odd pigmentation than what they have selectively bred in Asia (although that is also an odd pigmentation).
again, this is more of a discussion topic than anything else...i'm personally amused that the ones up for sale went for thousands of dollars, but to each their own with interest--
--solomon
PS-- Jude - we are certain the gar we posted wasn't eating shrimp as it was from a Great Lakes population of spotted gars where known genetic outliers have been found...so although environment surely plays some role, it's also based on genetics--
i think the gar posted in the photo (SPG) is a much better representation of true odd pigmentation than what they have selectively bred in Asia (although that is also an odd pigmentation).
again, this is more of a discussion topic than anything else...i'm personally amused that the ones up for sale went for thousands of dollars, but to each their own with interest--
--solomon
PS-- Jude - we are certain the gar we posted wasn't eating shrimp as it was from a Great Lakes population of spotted gars where known genetic outliers have been found...so although environment surely plays some role, it's also based on genetics--
sol, curiouse as to weather on not the wild specimins you caught may have been in areas with high amounts of crayfish in their diets? you can get similar red boosts ime from crayfish as other shellfish.. and I def wouldn't put it past gar to take crayfish, or prefer them if abundent to other foods. all my gar change patterns and coloration extreamely easy... I would be extreamely skeptical of any "odd" colored gar. haveing seen what can be done to arrowana under the right lights,backgrounds,foods, ect... no doubt gar can be similarly "shown" in better ways. and seeing how many of these odd gars turn into reg colors over time or just "vanish" Ive seen this intense red in other NA natives, particularly species prone to eating crayfish and other inverts.
Deffinately interesting.. but no way would I pay $$$ unless I saw genetics confirming the gene.
I'm also assueming in your data collecting you found nothing abnormal.
Deffinately interesting.. but no way would I pay $$$ unless I saw genetics confirming the gene.
I'm also assueming in your data collecting you found nothing abnormal.
