What species of geo are these ?
- Thread starter jake37
- Start date
Are those fish still in the shipping/transport bag?
Can't say for sure, but...I don't really think that stress patterns are anything to worry about at this point.
Can't say for sure, but...I don't really think that stress patterns are anything to worry about at this point.
I'm sorry, my bad; I thought your concern was the fact that they were displaying a stress pattern, rather than the possibility that the specific pattern was questionable for the species that they are supposed to be.
I'll see myself out now...
These charts might help a little, and
Above is G altifrons,Note the small mid body blotch
below a young G pyrocephalus (red head Tapajos)
and a video with some nice identification points
Guide to Amazonian Eartheaters - nearly all Geophagus speciesYouTube · Below Water36K+ views · 2 years ago
Less than ideal trying to ID them in the bag, but they look like winemilleri to me-- horizontally marked tails turning into stripes, plus the dark preopercular mark-- or if not, a similar looking, cheek marked species like proximus (on the other hand the cheek mark rules out pyrocephalus or abalios, for example). I do see what you mean about the bars on a couple of them, but I'd let them settle and see. Stress bars aren't always a 100% lock for ID, since in most species some individuals can have split, broken, or extra bars.
What is confusing me is the vertical bars - this paper suggest the ones with 7 veritcal bars are g. dicrozoster; now my question in relation to your post is the vertical bar accurate way to identify them. 2 of them don't have black marks on the gill plate. 2 of them have a 'Y' after the black spot. This is seen in the 2nd photograph the fish near the front has 6 bars (7 if you consider the y as two bars). My overall thought is 2 species with most being dicrozoster and at least one true winemilleri and 2 unknown species (these have no marks on the gill plate).
Geophagus winemilleri
Global Biodiversity Information Facility. Free and Open Access to Biodiversity Data.
www.gbif.org
I guess what i am asking is how reliable are the vertical stress marks. And what about the 2 without gill marks are those likely abalios ? I was told all 13 fishes came in together as a single catch (i purchased 7 as winemilleri).
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Yea my thought is two of them are a. abalios (these have no gill mark and black dot on 3rd stripe) and 3 are dicrozoster; 1 might be winemilleri and 2 are unknown but if you disagree with me please let me know that i'm being an idiot.
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Don't necessarily disagree. 
Don't know where you got them, but some vendors I'd trust close to 100% on species IDs, others somewhat less. So I won't say they can't be mixed, it can happen reportedly with exports of dicrozoster, abalios, and similar species, since the cheek marks can come and go. It's one reason I'd let them settle for a while, I've seen funny things happen sometimes to the distinguishing marks of stressed fish in bags. I've also seen people dismiss fairly obvious photos of winemilleri, for example, that were still young and simply not showing their cheek mark yet when photos were taken.
I definitely rely on bars to help ID, but I allow a little wiggle room for divergence. I've seen it myself in the spawns of species I bred and 100% knew what they were, including geo species, where the bars are not always exactly "correct" or exactly alike in each individual. If they came from a vendor I know is knowledgeable and highly trust, or from the same spawn of a breeder, I probably wouldn't worry too much if everything else lined up. But that's not to say I might never have doubts under any circumstances.
Don't know where you got them, but some vendors I'd trust close to 100% on species IDs, others somewhat less. So I won't say they can't be mixed, it can happen reportedly with exports of dicrozoster, abalios, and similar species, since the cheek marks can come and go. It's one reason I'd let them settle for a while, I've seen funny things happen sometimes to the distinguishing marks of stressed fish in bags. I've also seen people dismiss fairly obvious photos of winemilleri, for example, that were still young and simply not showing their cheek mark yet when photos were taken.
I definitely rely on bars to help ID, but I allow a little wiggle room for divergence. I've seen it myself in the spawns of species I bred and 100% knew what they were, including geo species, where the bars are not always exactly "correct" or exactly alike in each individual. If they came from a vendor I know is knowledgeable and highly trust, or from the same spawn of a breeder, I probably wouldn't worry too much if everything else lined up. But that's not to say I might never have doubts under any circumstances.
I don't want to name the seller but he mostly deal with dwarf cichild and not as often with larger cicihld. He's been doing this for 20+ years. He said the importer labeled them as (I think - the numbers might be slightly off) 8 winemilleri and 5 by catch. I've been mostly depending on the stress marks for id but you seem to suggest that is not 100% reliable. Someone else on another question asked if they could be hybrids mixed in to explain the 'Y' in the stress mark but again i dont' know how much variation there is - conversely when 'happy' the black bars mostly disappear and my understanding at that point is it can be very very difficult to identify them but the largest of the group has no cheek mark which makes me wonder (it is around 6 inches).Don't necessarily disagree.
Don't know where you got them, but some vendors I'd trust close to 100% on species IDs, others somewhat less. So I won't say they can't be mixed, it can happen reportedly with exports of dicrozoster, abalios, and similar species, since the cheek marks can come and go. It's one reason I'd let them settle for a while, I've seen funny things happen sometimes to the distinguishing marks of stressed fish in bags. I've also seen people dismiss fairly obvious photos of winemilleri, for example, that were still young and simply not showing their cheek mark yet when photos were taken.
I definitely rely on bars to help ID, but I allow a little wiggle room for divergence. I've seen it myself in the spawns of species I bred and 100% knew what they were, including geo species, where the bars are not always exactly alike. If they came from a vendor I know is knowledgeable and highly trust, or from the same spawn of a breeder, I probably wouldn't worry too much if everything else lined up. But that's not to say I might never have doubts under other circumstances.
A couple do look a bit different in the bags, but it's easy to get fooled that way and I hate to judge by that, especially with fish as similar as geos can be; some are really hard to distinguish, especially as young fish. But yes, from the same perfect parents I've had occasionally imperfect bars on some offspring, including split bars, partial bars, Y bars, etc. Most species, really, including geos. So I try to see if everything adds up. Photos can be notoriously hard to ID in some cases-- stressed fish, bars and other marks darkening and fading in different moods, tail patterns that vary in some species or change with age, mid-lateral spots that start out small and grow as the fish grows, etc. For example, I've seen people insist that sveni were altifrons because their mid-lateral spot is small in fish 1-2 inches and, in certain moods, virtually invisible in adults from some angles.
