Beani Dilemma advice needed.

[aclockworkorange]

 

[RD.]

While I have posted the following link a number of times, I'm guessing most people haven't taken the time to read this entire paper. It's a long read (200+ pages) but well worth the time for anyone that wants to really understand what the root cause is for most cases of "bloat" in cichlids.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-120399-140825/unrestricted/ANGEL.PDF

I've taken the time to compile some key portions of this paper which should help explain how bloat comes about, exactly what causes it in ornamental warm water tropical species of fish, and how young fish are more susceptible to severe cases of bloat vs larger fish.

In freshwater fish, Spironucleus sp. has been reported in cichlids, including angelfish, and cyprinids. Spironucleus elegans has been found causing disease in angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare) in Europe (Kulda and Lom, 1964b), while Spironucleus vortens has been also reported from the intestinal lumen of angelfish bred in Florida (Poynton et al., 1995). They can be found in the intestinal tracts of healthy fish and they may invade the body of the host and are capable of causing severe parasitemia under stress conditions (Molnár, 1974).

Hexamita are considered commensal organisms but can be pathogenic under various stressful conditions such as nutritional inadequacies, suboptimal water quality, crowding, poor sanitation and infections from other pathogens or parasites (Specht et al., 1989; Uzmann et al., 1965)

Although Hexamita and Spironucleus cause disease in several economically important fish species in many regions of the world, their pathogenicity is not well known (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been believed that the effects and the severity of diplomonad infection are dependent on fish size, tissue site infested, environmental conditions, stocking density, season and stress factors (Allison, 1963; Buchmann and Uldal, 1996; Mo et al., 1990; Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). Fish infected with Hexamita salmonis exhibited clinical signs correlated to their body length and weight (Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). This supports the study of Allison (1963) that large trout, more than 3 or 4 inches long, showed a smaller effect from Hexamita infection than smaller trout.

It is believed that the organisms invade the intestinal epithelium and disseminate to other tissues when the host’s resistance has been suppressed (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been suggested that only Spironucleus spp. cause systemic infection because they can invade intestinal mucosa and disseminate to other tissues (Siddall et al., 1992). Evidence of systemic spironucleosis was reported in cyprinids and aquarium fishes (Molnár, 1974), and in salmonids (Mo et al., 1990; Poppe et al., 1992; Sterud et al., 1997).

It has been suggested that only Spironucleus spp. cause systemic infection because they can invade intestinal mucosa and disseminate to other tissues (Siddall et al., 1992). Evidence of systemic spironucleosis was reported in cyprinids and aquarium fishes (Molnár, 1974), and in salmonids (Mo et al., 1990; Poppe et al., 1992; Sterud et al., 1997). In cyprinids, many Spironucleus sp. were found in the gut where they caused reddening of the mucous membrane, brownish-gray discoloration and necrosis of liver, and haemorrhagic enteritis. In aquarium fishes, the parasite has been reported to cause losses in angelfish stock of up to 50% of the population. The infected fishes showed reddening of the skin, and haemorrhages and ulcerations in the region of the head (Molnár, 1974). The parasites were found in the gut, gallbladder and visceral organs. Spironucleus sp. were also found in large numbers in the blood and the muscle of infected fish.

From this paper we know that these parasitic protozoa can be found in the intestinal tracts of healthy fish. We also know that STRESS, which weakens a fishes immune system, allows these flagellates to multiply in numbers to the point of causing systemic infections, which left unchecked will typically result in the death of the fish.

We also know that smaller fish are more susceptible to these flagellates compared to larger fish, NOT because of an undeveloped stomach as previously suggested, but due to an undeveloped immune system. Just like in humans, juveniles and elderly specimens are typically at far greater risk from disease, bacteria, etc, than a healthy specimen in their prime with a fully developed & well functioning immune system.

This is precisely why many people have difficulty with young immature bloat prone species, compared to when these species reach semi-adult stages.

This paper supplies the most in-depth research that I think one can currently find on this subject, and is well worth the read for anyone that wants to better understand "bloat", beyond what you will typically read on the various fish forum chat rooms.




HTH

 

[superman818]

Thanks for all the advice. The back and forth argument about bloat is nice too. What really surprised me in all of this is the salt is bad for your fish statement. I've always heard it's beneficial for tropical fish. I am going to attempt to keep the Beani in a community setting. I will watch the aggression towards him and do my typical 2 a week water changes. I was a bit paranoid when this fish first came in but I have very little experience with a Beani. I had a one incher once and it died all of a sudden. I will update his progress.

 

[VRWC]

So from all the info thats been posted, which basically proves that stress is most likely whats behind the issues with beani AND the fact that not 1 single person on MFK besides Madness (whose project is admittedly still in the beginning stage) has beani in a community, you are going to put him in a stressful situation?

Have you searched the web for "beani in a community" pics? There arent any.

Hopefully youll at least do a photo essay and document the slow growing flagellates as they kill the fish so it can be used as an example of what not to try with bloat prone cichlids.

 

[superman818]

So from all the info thats been posted, which basically proves that stress is most likely whats behind the issues with beani AND the fact that not 1 single person on MFK besides Madness (whose project is admittedly still in the beginning stage) has beani in a community, you are going to put him in a stressful situation?

Have you searched the web for "beani in a community" pics? There arent any.

Hopefully youll at least do a photo essay and document the slow growing flagellates as they kill the fish so it can be used as an example of what not to try with bloat prone cichlids.

I'm going to keep him in a community setting where he is the dominant fish at all times. I am going to put him in one of my 100 gallon aquariums with a couple of small cichlids. You are right, they are best kept alone but I just don't want to dedicate another solo tank. At least not yet.