New cichlids! Location F!

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i want to collect umbee with you umbeeking, i dont care about the location i just want to catch me a killer kingkong male.

modest_man i like the wood in your tank how'd u get it all to sink? also how is aggression with the snooks? i have one 'red' bay snook and hes only 3.5" or so and hes pretty mean. he is always flaring up at friedrichsthalii and even takes a shot at my atabapo pikes.. its kind of baffling i thought they were supposed to be peaceful but this guy is anything but. i really enjoy him i wish i had tank space to have more
 
There is nothing I would love more then to take that trip. Life however at the moment does not allow it. My wife recently opened her own practice and we have no time for travel. I've been telling Ken Davis I want to go to Uruguay with him for the last 3 trips, so he's first inline. If you want to make that a standing offer I'll definately take you up on when things slow down a little. I think that would be an amazing adventure.

You are correct in that I do not own any fish from your collections. It is not because they are not nice fish or that you do not list collection locations. My largest tank is a 220g and its for display in my home so I do not want eggcrate dividers in it and I do not feel it is large enough long term to keep a pair. I prefer to have a different look for that tank. All of my tanks in my fish room are 125g or smaller which are not large enough and I do not want to dedicate my 600g indoor pond to only an ubee pair or trio. That is why I do not have any of your collected umbees or any period. Sadly most of the people buying them will not be able to house them properly.

Nothing you do or post bothers me. I guess I just don't get it. It seems like nothing but hype for fish that don't need it. I get at least 1 PM a week from someone that wants Escondido fry from my male. He doesn't need a name or hype. He's a good fish that I've had for about 7 years and will continue to have until his time is up. That's another concern of mine. There are so many people with umbee fry or selling umbee fry from subadult pairs. Were are all of the adults. Why are so many people getting rid of there's or killing them off before they completely mature? Everyone is to busy running off to the next hot thing, this is true with a lot of people on the SA/CA forum, not just the umbee folks.

Feel free to rib away, I can take it:).
 
man thats one of my dreams to go collecting cichild id also love to go to Surimane and get a hoplias aimara that is so on my bucket list
 
jgentry said:
There is nothing I would love more then to take that trip. Life however at the moment does not allow it. My wife recently opened her own practice and we have no time for travel. I've been telling Ken Davis I want to go to Uruguay with him for the last 3 trips, so he's first inline. If you want to make that a standing offer I'll definately take you up on when things slow down a little. I think that would be an amazing adventure.

You are correct in that I do not own any fish from your collections. It is not because they are not nice fish or that you do not list collection locations. My largest tank is a 220g and its for display in my home so I do not want eggcrate dividers in it and I do not feel it is large enough long term to keep a pair. I prefer to have a different look for that tank. All of my tanks in my fish room are 125g or smaller which are not large enough and I do not want to dedicate my 600g indoor pond to only an ubee pair or trio. That is why I do not have any of your collected umbees or any period. Sadly most of the people buying them will not be able to house them properly.

Nothing you do or post bothers me. I guess I just don't get it. It seems like nothing but hype for fish that don't need it. I get at least 1 PM a week from someone that wants Escondido fry from my male. He doesn't need a name or hype. He's a good fish that I've had for about 7 years and will continue to have until his time is up. That's another concern of mine. There are so many people with umbee fry or selling umbee fry from subadult pairs. Were are all of the adults. Why are so many people getting rid of there's or killing them off before they completely mature? Everyone is to busy running off to the next hot thing, this is true with a lot of people on the SA/CA forum, not just the umbee folks.

Feel free to rib away, I can take it:).
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Jgentry, I guess for me it comes down to this. Whatever fish I keep I personally like to keep IMO the best of the best. There are plenty of people out here with Umbee's that are nice but I think 99% of these undisclosed locations are EXCEPTIONAL. To me there is no comapirson in quality to these new locations bottome line. In fact to prove it I am all for a post of Rio Mags vs. Undisclosed locations, lets do it !! But Umbee keepings better bring their A game and even then they still run a slim chance of competing. Chris is doing the right thing buisiness wise by keeping his locations undiclosed. We have seen it plenty of times where a vendor will get a fish in that has not been collected in years and the price reflects it. Well Chris is now the vendor and wants to remain as such therefore controlling the market so to speak, good buisiness !! As far as your comment "Sadly most of the people buying them will not be able to house them properly.

" In all honestly NONE of us are housing our fish properly. ALL fish come from a ridiculous amout of water and no matter if we put a minnow in a 125g or an umbee in a 600g it will never compare to the fishes natural habitat. I understand there is a reasonable tank size for all fish but these fish will survive even through conditions that most wouldn't consider "proper". Were all entilted to our opinion but to come out and try and post about it is ridiculous. Were all here cause supposedly we love this hobby but the bickering and hating is just gotta ridiculous and spoils the fun in it. Goes back to when we were kids, if you don't have something positive to say don't say nothing at all.


as far a Chris's offer that is a once in a lifetime opportunity but play nice or you might not come back, ITS A JUNGLE OUT THERE !!! :grinno:
 
LOPAKA said:
Jgentry, I guess for me it comes down to this. Whatever fish I keep I personally like to keep IMO the best of the best. There are plenty of people out here with Umbee's that are nice but I think 99% of these undisclosed locations are EXCEPTIONAL. To me there is no comapirson in quality to these new locations bottome line. In fact to prove it I am all for a post of Rio Mags vs. Undisclosed locations, lets do it !! But Umbee keepings better bring their A game and even then they still run a slim chance of competing. Chris is doing the right thing buisiness wise by keeping his locations undiclosed. We have seen it plenty of times where a vendor will get a fish in that has not been collected in years and the price reflects it. Well Chris is now the vendor and wants to remain as such therefore controlling the market so to speak, good buisiness !! As far as your comment "Sadly most of the people buying them will not be able to house them properly.

" In all honestly NONE of us are housing our fish properly. ALL fish come from a ridiculous amout of water and no matter if we put a minnow in a 125g or an umbee in a 600g it will never compare to the fishes natural habitat. I understand there is a reasonable tank size for all fish but these fish will survive even through conditions that most wouldn't consider "proper". Were all entilted to our opinion but to come out and try and post about it is ridiculous. Were all here cause supposedly we love this hobby but the bickering and hating is just gotta ridiculous and spoils the fun in it. Goes back to when we were kids, if you don't have something positive to say don't say nothing at all.


as far a Chris's offer that is a once in a lifetime opportunity but play nice or you might not come back, ITS A JUNGLE OUT THERE !!! :grinno:
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I would enjoy seeing side by side comparisons or everyones umbees.

You are correct that almost none of us can and will recreate anything like wild conditions. With that said I think we are all smart enough to be able figure out what could be an acceptable home and what wouldn't be. I also understand the business side of things, but just say that if that is the case. Just say the umbees I collected are nicer and I don't want anyone else collecting there and taking potential profits from me. I have no problem with that.

My concern is that with all of the extra hype going around a lot of people will buy these fish because they want to be apart of it. It's the fish that pay in the end. 2 years ago everyone and there brother thought they had to have a dovii pair. I saw a post nearly everyday and often several a day with people posting there new little dovii. Today you see a couple of random posts with 15-18" males but they are very few and far inbetween. Were did they all go? You and I both know they are long since dead. Last year it was Beani, thousands were sold. I even bought 6 from Dan woodland and still have a trio (1 male and 2 females were killed off one day before I could seperate them with eggcrate). Were are the large Beani adults at? You see one every once in a while. Were are all of the others? Dead.

I'm rambling on about nothing and off topic now so I'll just stop. All I ask is that you keep what you like, take excellent care of them, and enjoy them for years to come.
 
There are success stories too tho, look at the festae boom last year there are loads of med-large festae out there now and they get passed around to.other hobbiests which dont post on the forums. I got orange head geos and escondido from jgentry ive grown out the geos had them spawn and they now are in my friends hands doing wonderful but they arent on this forum. The escondidos are 8-9" now and are in my dads care. There are success stories, with dovii and beani they are both very aggressive and large growing and i think most people would agree are not for the average fiah keeper...i agree with you on that. I got rid of my dovii due to aggression and tank space required for the healthy keeping of the fish...im guilty
 
freebyrd said:
There are success stories too tho, look at the festae boom last year there are loads of med-large festae out there now and they get passed around to.other hobbiests which dont post on the forums. I got orange head geos and escondido from jgentry ive grown out the geos had them spawn and they now are in my friends hands doing wonderful but they arent on this forum. The escondidos are 8-9" now and are in my dads care. There are success stories, with dovii and beani they are both very aggressive and large growing and i think most people would agree are not for the average fiah keeper...i agree with you on that. I got rid of my dovii due to aggression and tank space required for the healthy keeping of the fish...im guilty
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I think we all have been guilty of it at one point or the other. Glad the fish I sent you are doing well and continuing to spread in the hobby. Good point about the festae as well. For once everyone that wants some has a chance to get them.
 
jgentry said:
I would enjoy seeing side by side comparisons or everyones umbees.

You are correct that almost none of us can and will recreate anything like wild conditions. With that said I think we are all smart enough to be able figure out what could be an acceptable home and what wouldn't be. I also understand the business side of things, but just say that if that is the case. Just say the umbees I collected are nicer and I don't want anyone else collecting there and taking potential profits from me. I have no problem with that.

My concern is that with all of the extra hype going around a lot of people will buy these fish because they want to be apart of it. It's the fish that pay in the end. 2 years ago everyone and there brother thought they had to have a dovii pair. I saw a post nearly everyday and often several a day with people posting there new little dovii. Today you see a couple of random posts with 15-18" males but they are very few and far inbetween. Were did they all go? You and I both know they are long since dead. Last year it was Beani, thousands were sold. I even bought 6 from Dan woodland and still have a trio (1 male and 2 females were killed off one day before I could seperate them with eggcrate). Were are the large Beani adults at? You see one every once in a while. Were are all of the others? Dead.

I'm rambling on about nothing and off topic now so I'll just stop. All I ask is that you keep what you like, take excellent care of them, and enjoy them for years to come.
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The last part of your statement, couldn't agree with you more. As far as what we call them so you want us to title our threads "Here is my umbee better than the rest" ?? Couldn't argue with the statement but not gonna happen. But we've been asked the difference and have said we feel these locations are superior than the Rio Mag numberous of times. JGentry, I do agree with you that alot of those large fish died due to irresponsible ownership but on a side note there are plenty of guys out there that read and don't write on these forums. But if they did we would drop our jaws with their stock.
 
Nothing personal gents, but if these fish are as EXCEPTIONAL as everyone claims, then why are some of you crossing the different geographical variants? That's the only part of this that I don't understand. What is the purpose of breeding location X & Z, other then to create a new 'aquarium' strain of fish. Any potential unique evolutionary history, and possibly unique behavioural traits, are in an instant lost forever. Genetically speaking these fish could be different/unique from each other. Crosses between two populations of a species are technically intraspecific hybrids, you guys crossing these fish from different locations do understand that, yes?

I have no problem if those doing the collecting want to keep the exact locations secret for now, but I don't get why anyone would take wild fish from different geographic locations & breed them.
 
You talk about hype, well the guy that comes to mind who has named his fish would be Aquamojo. Does everyone remember a fish named Jumbo??? Yes you do and I don't even have to tell you what kind of species it is cause that fish will be known by that name for a long time to come. Just like the General, he will be remembered for a long time as well. Your particular escondido however won't be remembered, people will just remember Jgentry and his escondido and most likely have to refer to it as such so other people know what they're talking about. But even then your fish can always be replaced with another escondido and who will really know the difference?? There is no replacing "Jumbo" or the "General".

And the locations weren't supposed to come across as hype, but to give umbeeking the time needed to properly document these fish and locations himself. Because we all know how cutthroat this hobby can be... And once he is finished and publishes his work, the names and such will be posted! So until then, this bickering back and forth about the names and locations is really childish!!!

And RD, the only reason these umbees are being bred with other locations is due to the lack of availability of females from same locations to keep pure strains. And anyone who has kept large umbees knows its not the easiest of tasks to pair out. After the next collection trip, which is hopefully successful should be able to supply enough male/female ratio to achieve a pair from each location. But as posted before there are no known location x females to have been brought back, seems to be only males at this time. And lopaka and i are the only ones with location z females. He has a z male, I don't . And the people that do have the other males aren't willing to breed or sell.... So it seems we're at a standstill for now and in the meantime we make due since they are still umbees. Just like people breeding different dovii locations, in that case just being a personal decision since dovii are very abundant in the hobby.
 
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