New cichlids! Location F!

[RD.]

After the next collection trip, which is hopefully successful should be able to supply enough male/female ratio to achieve a pair from each location.

Fair enough, but IMHO it would have made more sense to wait for females from the same location, vs breeding what one had just because that's all that is currently available. Just seems a shame that after going to all the trouble & cost of sourcing such nice strains of umbees, the offspring from these pairings that are going to be circulated (or already are?) are potentially going to be genetically different fish.

I feel the exact same way about anyone who breeds any wild species of fish from different locations. To me it's a step backwards in the hobby, not forwards.

 

[jgentry]

The last part of your statement, couldn't agree with you more. As far as what we call them so you want us to title our threads "Here is my umbee better than the rest" ?? Couldn't argue with the statement but not gonna happen. But we've been asked the difference and have said we feel these locations are superior than the Rio Mag numberous of times. JGentry, I do agree with you that alot of those large fish died due to irresponsible ownership but on a side note there are plenty of guys out there that read and don't write on these forums. But if they did we would drop our jaws with their stock.

If one of you folks don't mind spending the time I would love to see the comparison thread. And no I'm not asking to try to show they are not better or because I have any bad motives behind it. I would truely like to see the differences of adult male umbees side by side. That would be great pics to look and and educational as well.

You are very correct that a lot of the big time fish keepers and breeders post nothing on here. Lots of amazing hobbiest out there.

 

[Aquatik]

Inbreeding is the way to go, thats a secret that most dont know. Think about it you get one amazing strain and multiply it, yourgetting amazing fish, you guys think wild fish dontinbreed, the nicest fish come from being inbreed. I have seen two wild caught very bland looking create beautiful fry. And for you ring of umbee power guys most respect for what you guysaredoing withall these umbees, but some of those location x y b w are not much too look at and some are unbeliveably beautiful, thats why people are questioning your location lables. And taking it as nothing but genius marketing.

 

[RD.]

Inbreeding is the way to go, thats a secret that most dont know.

There's nothing secret about inbreeding, or line breeding, but if that comment was in response to my previous post, crossing two geographical variants & creating intraspecific hybrids has nothing to do with either/or.

 

[LOPAKA]

Inbreeding is the way to go, thats a secret that most dont know. Think about it you get one amazing strain and multiply it, yourgetting amazing fish, you guys think wild fish dontinbreed, the nicest fish come from being inbreed. I have seen two wild caught very bland looking create beautiful fry. And for you ring of umbee power guys most respect for what you guysaredoing withall these umbees, but some of those location x y b w are not much too look at and some are unbeliveably beautiful, thats why people are questioning your location lables. And taking it as nothing but genius marketing.

I don't agree with you, maybe to a small extent but as generation get deeper and deeper you are losing. I agree with RD as far as line breeding go but with 2+ different unrelated pairs and mixing fry with eachother as they are produced therefore adding new blood and strenthening every generation. As far as your comment "but some of those location x y b w are not much too look at" please let us see. There are some out there not shown to their full potential wether it be care etc... but if you look closely the potential is clearly there. To put it more simply there are probably 10 out of a 100 Rio Mags that I would consider owning myself whereas I'v had 20+ of these undisclosed locations and it was hard to let any of them go. I will create an umbee thread and invite all 2 post any umbees they have, find, w/e..... lets all see for ourselves

If one of you folks don't mind spending the time I would love to see the comparison thread. And no I'm not asking to try to show they are not better or because I have any bad motives behind it. I would truely like to see the differences of adult male umbees side by side. That would be great pics to look and and educational as well.

You are very correct that a lot of the big time fish keepers and breeders post nothing on here. Lots of amazing hobbiest out there.

I hope it happens

Fair enough, but IMHO it would have made more sense to wait for females from the same location, vs breeding what one had just because that's all that is currently available. Just seems a shame that after going to all the trouble & cost of sourcing such nice strains of umbees, the offspring from these pairings that are going to be circulated (or already are?) are potentially going to be genetically different fish.

I feel the exact same way about anyone who breeds any wild species of fish from different locations. To me it's a step backwards in the hobby, not forwards.

RD, I see what your saying but we can only do what is possible. IMO it is better to add something then to add nothing. I still think results will be acheived just not to the maximum. As far as taking X to Z, given that both are excellent I think the results would be very stunning. I am also working on a pure Z location umbee now so keep your fingers crossed (they need it )

 

[Freshwaterpredators]

Fair enough, but IMHO it would have made more sense to wait for females from the same location, vs breeding what one had just because that's all that is currently available. Just seems a shame that after going to all the trouble & cost of sourcing such nice strains of umbees, the offspring from these pairings that are going to be circulated (or already are?) are potentially going to be genetically different fish.

I feel the exact same way about anyone who breeds any wild species of fish from different locations. To me it's a step backwards in the hobby, not forwards.

RD you are a very knowledgable and respected member on here and i have valued information from you in the past. I am not trying to take a step backwards as you say. In my expirience with large predatory fish it has been easier for me if i do plan on pairing them out is to start while the males are relatively small, just to get them used to the motions. because once they reach over 12" and have not been with a female before can make things really difficult to pair out as the male has already established most of its personality and is becoming more aggressive. Now yes, i can breed them thru a divider but i personally would rather ave a bonded pair vs having to keep them divided. And right now Im not into keeping a solo fish in my fishroom, so i am working on pairing him out in the mean time and once females from those locations become available i will pair him accordingly. and to my knowledge there arent any fry floating around from the combinations.

And for you ring of umbee power guys most respect for what you guysaredoing withall these umbees, but some of those location x y b w are not much too look at and some are unbeliveably beautiful, thats why people are questioning your location lables. And taking it as nothing but genius marketing.

Thank you and to answer your point, not everyone has good fishkeeping skills. those other umbees you see that dont look so great, only look like that because they lack TLC. I guarantee if you put those umbees into the hands of those people with the Beautiful umbees, everyone would be able to see that those Umbees would look just as good if not better. Take my location X male for example, I think he has the least amount of freckles out of all the other location X's ive seen. But i love the colors he started displaying at an early age and he showed the most potential for a breeder that i decided to keep him over Monster X (possibly the nicest X male ive seen), which is now currently back in the hands of the one and only Umbeeking

 

[LOPAKA]

here it is fellas, lets do this !!! http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-Mags-X-and-Z-POST-AWAY&p=5526019#post5526019

 

[Freshwaterpredators]

I don't agree with you, maybe to a small extent but as generation get deeper and deeper you are losing. I agree with RD as far as line breeding go but with 2+ different unrelated pairs and mixing fry with eachother as they are produced therefore adding new blood and strenthening every generation. As far as your comment "but some of those location x y b w are not much too look at" please let us see. There are some out there not shown to their full potential wether it be care etc... but if you look closely the potential is clearly there. To put it more simply there are probably 10 out of a 100 Rio Mags that I would consider owning myself whereas I'v had 20+ of these undisclosed locations and it was hard to let any of them go. I will create an umbee thread and invite all 2 post any umbees they have, find, w/e..... lets all see for ourselves



I hope it happens



RD, I see what your saying but we can only do what is possible. IMO it is better to add something then to add nothing. I still think results will be acheived just not to the maximum. As far as taking X to Z, given that both are excellent I think the results would be very stunning.

X2^^

 

[dogofwar]

Making up names for locations and mixing fish from different locations can only add to confusion among hobbyists and the marketplace. And result in loss or dilution of whatever unique characteristics that each of the different, possible, varients of fish might have had.

No bueno.

Matt (AKA CHANCHITOKING!!!!!!)

 

[LOPAKA]

Making up names for locations and mixing fish from different locations can only add to confusion among hobbyists and the marketplace. And result in loss or dilution of whatever unique characteristics that each of the different, possible, varients of fish might have had.

No bueno.

Matt (AKA CHANCHITOKING!!!!!!)

man you guys really gotta read before you type, its just like kids have to crawl before they walk. Nobody is making up location names but simply titling them something (in this case X and Z) since the true location will remain undisclosed. Those of you us who need to know, know the locations where the fish were collected. The only "loss or dilution of whatever unique characteristics " would take place if bred to a Rio Mag of lower quality. As far a X and Z you couldn't tell them apart if I showed you two as like PREVIOUSLY mentioned but I'll say it again, They are both magnificent !! As far as mixing it happens all the time with dovii (nic and hon) Festae (ecu and per) so why is this such a big deal ??? I'll tell you why cause you guys are like kids on Christmas that can't stand the suspense of not knowing. If it is hard for a person to grasp "add to confusion among hobbyists " then they should probably give up fish and hit the books. From now on for my few and far between post I'll just post "Here are my umbees" but I guarantee you people will ask where their from.....