Cichla Sao Francisco

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Singapore has only mainly farmed produced the kelrino hybrid which was meant to be a designer breed, not a random hybrid from throwing a brunch of p bass together, most other mix either come from other parts of Asia or wc from our reservoirs(these are not exported). What we been also proud to produce are Pure Bahia Kels, Arauguaia Kels, Orino Rio Meta and Azuls F1s.

Singapore also labels bass wrong as well.

In the last three years, Singapore has the most missed ID'ing of bass just to boost sales. I know the history of the so called "kelrinos", but do they ever show Kelberi traits? Nope... Not one. Mono x orino I can see, but not Kelberi.

Pure bahias are bahias no matter what, but calling them wild is a different story.

The Arauguaia kels, lets see the parents of the babies that are around.

Hawaii we can release bass into our lakes and river and catch them in a year and call them wild....but do we? Not one bit.


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Singapore also labels bass wrong as well.

In the last three years, Singapore has the most missed ID'ing of bass just to boost sales. I know the history of the so called "kelrinos", but do they ever show Kelberi traits? Nope... Not one. Mono x orino I can see, but not Kelberi.

Pure bahias are bahias no matter what, but calling them wild is a different story.

The Arauguaia kels, lets see the parents of the babies that are around.

Hawaii we can release bass into our lakes and river and catch them in a year and call them wild....but do we? Not one bit.


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Every country has it's fair share of mislabeled fishes. Most LFS just label what the suppliers write on their order forms, most of our supply come from Tawian. Whatever they label, the LFS just writes. Bichirs in the US is always mislabeled. We had Azuls which turn out to be Pinimas, intermedia that turn out to be tems, but these were imported from reputable suppliers like Oliver. Even they have problems with IDing small bass. We are a country smaller then new york, u sure we got the most mis ID bass to boost sales? Just FIY, there are a lot of threads asking for ID of p bass in mfk. Nobody trusts their LFS to give a proper ID, not just in SG. Our LFS are not the only ones guilty of trying to boost sales with fancy names.

This is borrowed from Rons thread on his Kelrino http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?504355-Kelrino/page3
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I believe spangles on the anal fin is a Kelberi trait isn't it? We haven't had any adults yet, so we still dunno how they will turn out. But this being a new hybrid, every fish will probably turn out different. To say that the breeder is just BSing us Have u met him? Been to his ponds? Seen his fishes? The fact is that being such a small country means we can easily find out and meet the breeder if we wanted. And some of us are friends with him.

I have to admit of LFS in SG calling their bahia WC when we actually know it's CB. But every country has it's rotten apples.

To see the parents of the Araguaia just follow this link http://www.predatoryfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?9631-My-Golden-Army-Kelberi-Araguaia U can also follow the development of the fry from there.

And lastly abt our reservoirs. The Story goes like this, Our govt were the ones who release the p bass into our water systems. The reason was to control the population of other species like the Big Head Carp which was introduced earlier in the 70s. And Govts being govts didn't really care which species they were bringing in, orinos, mono, occels dun mean anything to them. So yes, we dun have pure p bass in our waters. Well, thats not true either, because there was one reservoir which was spared by the govt, but then some fly anglers decided they would like to try catching the biggest p bass species instead of the puny hybrids we already have. So a bunch of them pool their money and released the frys in that reservoir. The outcome, pure Tems and Tems only.
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As for the anglers who label the fishes they bring home as wc, well technically they are not wrong even if I dun agree with them. But as mentioned, we dun export these fishes. Fishing is illegal in most of our waters, and the designated areas to fish are normally less then a 200m length of shore and only rod and lures are permitted. No boats allowed in any of the reservoirs. There is no one mass catching these fishes for the aquarium trade. At most some idiots trying to make a quick buck selling their catch to LFS which dunno better.

Now, I dun say that what I have said is 100% accurate, but I'm sure as hell its more accurate then where ever u are are getting ur info from. I live here man, and the only agenda I have is I love my country and half truth bashing isn't cool. You can as judgmental of us creating designer hybrids as much as you want, I dun really agree with it myself, but then again, flowers horns are also our creation and a huge success. Who am I to judge them.

Sorry for going so off topic.
 
Very good explanation nid. Respect.
 
nice discussion going on here, cheers to all who keep bass and try to find the truth. I have to admit that identifying young peacock bass can be very difficult. Last year, the thousands of intermedia's that were sold by various reputable people were at the end, temensis.

the earlier this year, people tried selling thousands of baby temensis, but when I saw the picture of them, they were just farm mono's.

as for hybrids, its good and bad. bad for purists, who like wild pure bass. good for adventure keepers, who want to see what they will turn out like, as most of this is unprecedented.
 
before anybody jumps on the wagon of frowning on hybrides. realize that most dogs are selectively bred for certain traits we find adorable. the result is that some are semi deformed, some cannot give birth as nature intends, some are overly aggressive. some dwarfs, some giants. same with fancy gold fish. same with fancy discus. humans are mostly at fault for everything that is wrong in the world, yet we all chose to accept some and reject some
 
before anybody jumps on the wagon of frowning on hybrides. realize that most dogs are selectively bred for certain traits we find adorable. the result is that some are semi deformed, some cannot give birth as nature intends, some are overly aggressive. some dwarfs, some giants. same with fancy gold fish. same with fancy discus. humans are mostly at fault for everything that is wrong in the world, yet we all chose to accept some and reject some

+1 , I really not a big fan of hybrids and I own only pure p bass. But there are exceptions, like the Dabola I have which is suspected a natural wild cross of an endi and lap. And of cos the most important hybrid in my life.
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I very much love pure breed dogs also, but my girl and I picked him up from a abusive family who didn't want him anymore. Who could resist this face. FYI this is a pic taken a few mths ago, he is already 9yrs old. U thought he was a puppy didn't u?:ROFL:
 
Bet it was labeled as a young pure breed WC.:ROFL: Looks good to me.
 
Bet it was labeled as a young pure breed WC.:ROFL: Looks good to me.

Surprisingly I actually did ask for parent pics. :ROFL: It was marketed as a shih tzu x pomeranian. Haha Just paid for his shots to take him away from them but turns out this mix breed is worth like 4k in the US :WHOA:. Love him to bits no matter.

Wow, I think I went really too off topic, ok thats the last off topic subject from me.
 
Hybrid vigor is great. Look at plants, fruits and vegetables. Lots of beneficial hybridization. Hybrids can bring out the best of both worlds when carefully selected. I think a lot of the fuss these days is importers and vendors passing off cb fish as wc fish. Not only is this unfair to the buyer but it also taints people's collections and breeding projects. All to make a buck. Moving the hobby in the wrong direction. Is it really all about the dollar?


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just to be clear, I'm not 100% sure these "sao francisco" bass are wild or captive bred. its a spcial exclusive import. the ones in the Phillipines were marketed as sao francisco bass, and that is the best info. I have on them.
 
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