Under stocked vs over stocked...

[Aweshade9]

I believe a tank is overstocked when
1. A fish can't turn around(I think a tank can be overstocked with one fish)
2. They constantly bump into each other
3. They are always stressed
4. You can't handle the bio-load

 

[RD.]

There are different types of overstocking; but Africans are used because in these particular cases, over stocking works...of course, provided that one supplies sufficient filtering, etc.

I've lost count how many species of African cichlids that I have kept over the years, and yet none of these numerous set ups were overstocked. By most MFK standards, perhaps moderately stocked, perhaps by some heavily stocked, but never "over" stocked.


My personal definition of "over stocked" is keeping fish beyond the individual set ups capacity. Hence the use of the term "over".



There is absolutely no comparison between the average mbuna tank, with fish that average under 6", with JDM style tanks with fish that average 24+", and can barely turn around, or avoid running into their tankmates when they do.

Also, most mbuna are found in the wild in large groups, so this type of setting in captivity is at least somewhat natural for these fish, unlike most of the large "monster" JDM species kept in captivity. And outside of mbuna, and a few select other cichlids such as tropheus, I don't see many experienced Rift Lake cichlid keepers suggesting to "crowd" any of the other various genus found in the Rift Lakes to help disperse aggression. Quite the opposite.


Are there idiots that over stock African cichlid tanks, of course, but that behaviour is frowned upon by the same type of fishkeepers who frown upon overstocked monster fish tanks.

 

[strollo22]

I do 50-70% water changes every week, sometimes more. I base my under/overstocking on my water parameters. If I can't keep my tank under 15-20ppm nitrates AFTER my weekly WC, then I say I'm overstocked. The answer should never be do more water changes to compensate because all you're doing is masking a problem. If you can't keep your parameters where you want them, on your schedule, then I think you're over stocked. This is how I personally, judge my stock level.


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[RD.]

Lots of "over stocked" JDM style tanks out there with low nitrates.

All one needs to keep nitrates in check is add an auto-water change drip system, and dial it in to whatever you want. I've seen tanks packed with monster fish so tight you could barely get a net in to catch a fish, with nitrate levels that never exceeded 10 ppm.

Still a major fail by my standards.

 

[strollo22]

Lots of "over stocked" JDM style tanks out there with low nitrates.

All one needs to keep nitrates in check is add an auto-water change drip system, and dial it in to whatever you want. I've seen tanks packed with monster fish so tight you could barely get a net in to catch a fish, with nitrate levels that never exceeded 10 ppm.

Still a major fail by my standards.

I never said anything about an auto drip system. You could obviously keep any amount fish in any tank if you're dumping gallons of clean water in daily. I was just saying for me. If I do weekly water changes on a set schedule and my water parameters are higher than they should be or normally are, then I know I'm overstocked.


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[RD.]

Yes, I understand that you were just referring to yourself.


I was simply pointing out that water quality alone should not be the only deciding factor as to whether a tank is overstocked, or not.

You could obviously keep any amount fish in any tank if you're dumping gallons of clean water in daily.

I totally disagree, and have seen (and maintained) monster tanks such as this. VERY high overall water quality, with hundreds of gallons of fresh water being dialed in daily, but still, the fish were just too cramped to exhibit any type of natural behaviour, and many were obviously stressed from these cramped conditions.

 

[majorhavok]

Thats why I threw in the one about the fish being a certain volume of the tank. I like the analogy of a bunch of people standing in an elevator.

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[ecoli73]

These days I have seen more heated(and pointless) arguments about where a single silver aro can live in a 240 than JDM type tanks.

As far as natural behavior is concerned, is a single wet pet fish, spending it's time moving gravel and challenge every person in the fish room natural behavior? I have kept several SA community, even oscars, in presence of other fish, are a little less owner responsive(no scientific study, just observation)...


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[dogofwar]

There's a big difference between overstocking mbuna or Haps (or Tropheus for that matter) and, say, giant catfish or Pbass, big New World cichlids or knifefish.

I actually advocate the former as a way of dispersing aggression. Just do more water changes and over filter.

Big fish are another story.

I question whether fish like RTCs, Pbass, Umbees, Pimas, Pacu, Pangassius, etc. are even suitable for 99% of home aquaria. Let alone one or more of them all of them packed into a single 6' or 8' tank. Sure you can keep them alive for awhile but come on, how many aquarists are able to support their needs for life...or actually do so in practice (after the novelty has worn off but the responsibility of caring for them is not)? Or even a few years. Very, very few, I'd bet.

Matt

I've lost count how many species of African cichlids that I have kept over the years, and yet none of these numerous set ups were overstocked. By most MFK standards, perhaps moderately stocked, perhaps by some heavily stocked, but never "over" stocked.


My personal definition of "over stocked" is keeping fish beyond the individual set ups capacity. Hence the use of the term "over".



There is absolutely no comparison between the average mbuna tank, with fish that average under 6", with JDM style tanks with fish that average 24+", and can barely turn around, or avoid running into their tankmates when they do.

Also, most mbuna are found in the wild in large groups, so this type of setting in captivity is at least somewhat natural for these fish, unlike most of the large "monster" JDM species kept in captivity. And outside of mbuna, and a few select other cichlids such as tropheus, I don't see many experienced Rift Lake cichlid keepers suggesting to "crowd" any of the other various genus found in the Rift Lakes to help disperse aggression. Quite the opposite.


Are there idiots that over stock African cichlid tanks, of course, but that behaviour is frowned upon by the same type of fishkeepers who frown upon overstocked monster fish tanks.

 

[Cellitti]

i can't believe people are buying into this overstocking B.S. it's NOT ok. it's a mean and unhealthy way to raise and keep fish. it almost seems as if everyones a rookie keeper all the sudden with agreeing that over stocking is ok.