Line Breeding -- Where is the Line?

[woofy]

I retract my last statement as i didnt read the article. But something in that article reminded me of a situation i had here once where we kept getting florida wild midevils (not comparable to pure but still similar events) with large humps. The minute they hit aquariums their humps went away completely. So it was assumed that without their female this will happen so we them got a pair off pair and put them together. Again males hump was gone and never came back. Female was removed and new female was added and the males hump returned. This seems to be exactly as to how it was explained in the article which was curious to me that line bred f5000 midevils still retain this same as the wild ones.

My wild male however as been exposed to the same procedure and is with f1 male whos hump does stay constant and he has yet to produce a slight bump. So maybe years in captivity has taken a toll.


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[Aquanero]

i would say his taste in music is better than said Kennel's

That was funny I think you hit the nail on the head.

Never discuess Politics, religion and linebreeding! LOL.............

 

[dogofwar]

I think you should launch the "kennel" with a rambling YouTube journey through 20-year-old books and magazines... and hats. You need custom hats.

Matt

 

[koltsixx]

Interesting all this time I thought purist reasoning was based more on trying to conserve wild populations from extinction. Yet the primary discussion is geared toward looks and personal preference, truly surprising. I did how ever predict that no one would really talk about responsibility in this thread(ieroper identification, tracking of lineage and proper labeling except Azedenkae) which is the real issue with hybrids and line breeding. Which as I also said is funny as in most threads responsibility seems to be the primary issue discussed(ie: moral responsibility in giving your fish the best living conditions you can provide etc.).

To me the only real reason to keep wild forms pure is to maintain the beauty of a fish that natural selection has created( a great reason in my opinion), yet it's not being discussed. Just discussions on personal preference for wild forms and how wild forms inherently change when kept and bred in captivity, which should be an obvious end result. Not how we're depleting the environment of wild forms such as Lyonsi and how they may disappear all together and how we as hobbyists can help prevent such an occurrence. Why are these things not being discussed?

 

[dogofwar]

From my perspective, keeping fish in glass boxes has little to do with conservation...unless fishkeeping inspires people to take concrete actions to support actual conservation or preservation of cichlid habitats...or (less so) organized captive breeding / propagation efforts (i.e. not random hobbyists).

With a few exceptions (Ps. saulosi, "Ilangi" Tropheus), collection of wild freshwater fish for the aquarium hobby ranks way down on the list of threats to wild cichlid habitats (especially in the New World). If you care about conservation, support Rivers International or the Nature Conservancy or some other organization doing real conservation work.

As I posted before, I like wild-type fish because they transport me back to where they're from (whether I've been there or not). They are they way they are because of their habitat. The further that fish are from that original population, the less they're connected to nature (at least for me). Kind of like why a lot of fancy angels don't know how to raise fry!

Matt

Interesting all this time I thought purist reasoning was based more on trying to conserve wild populations from extinction. Yet the primary discussion is geared toward looks and personal preference, truly surprising. I did how ever predict that no one would really talk about responsibility in this thread(ieroper identification, tracking of lineage and proper labeling except Azedenkae) which is the real issue with hybrids and line breeding. Which as I also said is funny as in most threads responsibility seems to be the primary issue discussed(ie: moral responsibility in giving your fish the best living conditions you can provide etc.).

To me the only real reason to keep wild forms pure is to maintain the beauty of a fish that natural selection has created( a great reason in my opinion), yet it's not being discussed. Just discussions on personal preference for wild forms and how wild forms inherently change when kept and bred in captivity, which should be an obvious end result. Not how we're depleting the environment of wild forms such as Lyonsi and how they may disappear all together and how we as hobbyists can help prevent such an occurrence. Why are these things not being discussed?

 

[woofy]

Interesting all this time I thought purist reasoning was based more on trying to conserve wild populations from extinction. Yet the primary discussion is geared toward looks and personal preference, truly surprising. I did how ever predict that no one would really talk about responsibility in this thread(ieroper identification, tracking of lineage and proper labeling except Azedenkae) which is the real issue with hybrids and line breeding. Which as I also said is funny as in most threads responsibility seems to be the primary issue discussed(ie: moral responsibility in giving your fish the best living conditions you can provide etc.).

To me the only real reason to keep wild forms pure is to maintain the beauty of a fish that natural selection has created( a great reason in my opinion), yet it's not being discussed. Just discussions on personal preference for wild forms and how wild forms inherently change when kept and bred in captivity, which should be an obvious end result. Not how we're depleting the environment of wild forms such as Lyonsi and how they may disappear all together and how we as hobbyists can help prevent such an occurrence. Why are these things not being discussed?

What i was trying to say (which i might not have conveyed correctly) was the idea that i like f0 because of what your saying, because its natural selection and way it was suppose to look in nature that is often lost in line breeding, regardless of how it looks. Which is why even though my taste leans towards the "grotesque" hump in midas i still got my wild male just for the chance of owning a wild midas untouched and unaltered. At lease i think thats what you meant.

And to my knowledge there are a lot of species of fish that are being supported solely by hobbyist breeding. No?




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[Miguel]

Sorry if we did not follow your guideliines in this discussion

For me, the responsibility you mention has 2 aspects (1) being trustworthy in what pertains the lines you keep and not sell apples and oranges; (2) the main one, in reality, is giving up on keeping wild fish in glass boxes and spend the money spent on them and on the hobby in prserving their habitat.

All the rest does not make a lot of sense, with me. Want wild, want pure? Leave them in their place and preserve them.

 

[aclockworkorange]

LOL, really! I already got people thinking my Jeff Rapps trimacs are flowerhorns, what the heck is a guy to do?
This really began longer before me delving into trimacs. I have a secret fetish for captive bred angelfish varieties.
Matt, do you have a lead on some hats though?


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[aclockworkorange]

And the funnier part... This is coming from me, the guy who spends untold amounts of money on tank decor to attempt to replicate nature,

and generally only keeps biotope communities of fish found together in a specific collection point (I can count on one hand how many other CA cichlid guys I know that keep fish like this).
And then you have Matt, the stereotypical "purist," that mixes fish from all over the place and has flowerpots in his tanks!
Lines drawn indeed...


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[Miguel]

Love the flowerpots!

Collection point?