Line Breeding -- Where is the Line?

[dogofwar]

I've thought about the use of Repashy and other gel foods on rough rock surfaces for mbuna (and maybe Labiatus) as a way of duplicating (more) natural feeding behaviors.

Might be kinda interesting, although I haven't done it

Matt

Yeah you're right duanes, I have seen some F1 labiatus with some somewhat noticable lips (but not comparable to wild fish) but I know from the papers RD. has posted on them it's behavioral thing (forgive the lack of a better term right now).

I think there's a catch 22 there... People who breed fish with the goal of selling them obviously make more money with the more fish they raise. And that's not to say a good majority of them won't be "healthy" (of course there will always need to be some culls, which is hard to stomach for some).


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[woofy]

See this is where it becomes tough for me miguel, espcially in the topic of midas (one of the most line bred fish). You have brought up a personal debate. I have a wild male and he does not look like your "typical" midas , no kok no typlical coloration but its a wild midas. Period. When i will breed him to a wild female, i have the dilemma that do i prefer and keep the ones i find attractive piebald and big humps (which by looking at dad can tell you might not happen) or are the ones that come out more to the midas standard yellow (like mom), orange and creamsicles and only line breed those? To stick with the "wild" look of orange colored stocky midas? Will purist find only the wild looking ones acceptable even though they will all be f1?

Might i add. Ive had this wild vs f1 argument many times with someone. And im always shoved down my throat how f1 looks better, and acts better in a fish tank ect and its the "same thing" ive still always insisted its not but i keep hearing this f1 and f0 is the same thing. Can someone tell me why? I want wild because i believe if you love a certain species and its your favorite and even though the f300 might even look better and turn out just as nice, i still want that fish as nature intended it to be. That f0 fish to means it unaltered, its i guess the way its suppose to be and regardless of looks thats what i want.




Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Miguel]

But you can't keep it like that, Emily. Somewhere, due to food, water, exercise or lack thereof, his traits, or moste certainly his offsprings traits will not match the wilderness.

One can be close to it. Or attempt to. Matt does it. You do it. ( i look for the traits i like, regradless of wild line fidelity ), but our tanks are no rivers. Fish will change from their wild counterparts.

 

[RD.]

woofy - some of what you are seeing in your male midas is most likely being influenced by environmental conditions, not simply genetics. The growth & size of nuchal humps in A. citrinellum in captivity is described & explained in full in the link below. In the one paper Barlow found some of the massive humps seen on males kept in captivity as grotesque, and noted that nuchal humps of this size far exceed anything seen in nature.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?472442-The-Nuchal-Hump-in-Amphilophus


As far as color, the color of your male is as typical as any other piebald male found in Lake Nicaragua. The reality is most of the wild A. citrinellum, are barred, not orange, not creamsicle, and not piebald.


The likes & dislikes of hobby fish keepers will vary as much as the likes and dislikes about anything else in this world. We all end up drawing the line where we personally feel most comfortable. For myself, it's never been a slippery slope.




Personally I think that this entire discussion is simply Jeff's subconscious attempting to validate what he is about to do with his Pyrac Trimac.

 

[woofy]

Regardless of how it changes in captivity it will always be wild. Which is my point that sometimes the line bred fish may look better but i like knowing that what i have is the way it was found in its natural habitat. And mind you im in no way purist because i do keep and breed short body fish and hybridize to create " popular" mutations.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[woofy]

woofy - some of what you are seeing in your male midas is most likely being influenced by environmental conditions, not simply genetics. The growth & size of nuchal humps in A. citrinellum in captivity is described & explained in full in the link below. In the one paper Barlow found some of the massive humps seen on males kept in captivity as grotesque, and noted that nuchal humps of this size far exceed anything seen in nature.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?472442-The-Nuchal-Hump-in-Amphilophus


As far as color, the color of your male is as typical as any other piebald male found in Lake Nicaragua. The reality is most of the wild A. citrinellum, are barred, not orange, not creamsicle, and not piebald.


The likes & dislikes of hobby fish keepers will vary as much as the likes and dislikes about anything else in this world. We all end up drawing the line where we personally feel most comfortable. For myself, it's never been a slippery slope.




Personally I think that this entire discussion is simply Jeff's subconscious attempting to validate what he is about to do with his Pyrac Trimac.

I can tell you my male has no signs of developing a hump and he 2 years old raised in captivity which is curious as to y f1 male get such massive humps


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[dogofwar]

"Personally I think that this entire discussion is simply Jeff's subconscious attempting to validate what he is about to do with his Pyrac Trimac."

The West Coast Branch of the Real Hard Cichlid Kennel?!?

Matt

 

[Miguel]

Personally I think that this entire discussion is simply Jeff's subconscious attempting to validate what he is about to do with his Pyrac Trimac.

Ahah! Sort of preparing the masses in advance in relation to some obnoxious experiment! Talk about savy!

 

[Miguel]

"Personally I think that this entire discussion is simply Jeff's subconscious attempting to validate what he is about to do with his Pyrac Trimac."

The West Coast Branch of the Real Hard Cichlid Kennel?!?

Matt

i would say his taste in music is better than said Kennel's

 

[Miguel]

Not wanting to derail, but i love my grotesque, not seen in nature, humps....

But what else is new?