That's for dizamb sure right there! ***DREAM FISHROOM***** 40'x40' room with with a total 12 600 gallon tanks and 4 1000 gallon tanks! Big cichlid haven right there lol!!
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Sharing my crazy umbee project with you guys :)
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That's for dizamb sure right there! ***DREAM FISHROOM***** 40'x40' room with with a total 12 600 gallon tanks and 4 1000 gallon tanks! Big cichlid haven right there lol!!
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I wish! Hubby might divorce me if he came home to that though lol!
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Whoa! So many replies! Thanks everyone. It was actually extremely easy they spawned within a week or two after putting them together. 
I don't see how crossing Umbee variants is any different than crossing different variants of peacocks or pbass or discus or whatever. You'll ultimately get fish that are different from what's found in the wild...but that's the point.
The key to producing quality fancy fish through line breeding is to do it in a controlled manner and with a goal in mind. That's how koi angels, Black Moscow Guppies, ruby red peacocks, etc. were produced.
A single generation of crossing is likely to result in a few interesting fish (with the desired traits...that should be line bred together in successive generations to accentuate the desired traits) and lots that look like one variant or the other or both (that should be culled).
I don't have an issue with crossing the varients (or creating other hybrids or fancy fish). I just don't trust the fish marketplace to ensure that they're properly labeled, especially over time.
The more that mixed umbees are released into the market, the more that people - hobbyists, LFS, whoever - will lose track of what they have or are selling. Umbees breed readily, have lots of babies and grow rapidly, so the chances of lots and lots of small, medium and large umbees being dumped into the markeplace is pretty high. Few hobbyists or stores have the capability of keeping them for life.
The number of "What variant of Texas Cichlid is this?" or "Is this a pure red devil" or "Is this a trimac or flowerhorn" or "What kind of peacock is this" threads proves this point. The answer always is "If you don't know, it's impossible to know." It would be really sad to see this happen to the wild-type umbee variants currently available.
Matt
The key to producing quality fancy fish through line breeding is to do it in a controlled manner and with a goal in mind. That's how koi angels, Black Moscow Guppies, ruby red peacocks, etc. were produced.
A single generation of crossing is likely to result in a few interesting fish (with the desired traits...that should be line bred together in successive generations to accentuate the desired traits) and lots that look like one variant or the other or both (that should be culled).
I don't have an issue with crossing the varients (or creating other hybrids or fancy fish). I just don't trust the fish marketplace to ensure that they're properly labeled, especially over time.
The more that mixed umbees are released into the market, the more that people - hobbyists, LFS, whoever - will lose track of what they have or are selling. Umbees breed readily, have lots of babies and grow rapidly, so the chances of lots and lots of small, medium and large umbees being dumped into the markeplace is pretty high. Few hobbyists or stores have the capability of keeping them for life.
The number of "What variant of Texas Cichlid is this?" or "Is this a pure red devil" or "Is this a trimac or flowerhorn" or "What kind of peacock is this" threads proves this point. The answer always is "If you don't know, it's impossible to know." It would be really sad to see this happen to the wild-type umbee variants currently available.
Matt
Rio Blanco is a tributary of the Rio Copan, so RTMs from both are the same fish.
According to Ken (fishfarm), who collected them: It's real simple, we collect in the Rio Blanco because it's a smaller tributery to the Copan and easier to collect, The Rio Blanco's in the hobby came from a location about a mile from where the Blanco runs into the Copan, so basically they are all the same fish. All the fish from the Blanco and Copan came from 4 collecting trips we made from 2006-2009. Ken
Since all of the RTM stock that are in the hobby (and likely ever will be in the hobby) are from a very few wild fish (collected by Ken and Co. on the 4 trips), differences in individuals and (intentional or unintentional) line breeding is what results in the differences in red coloration (i.e. people tending to breed for more color and other aquarist-desired traits).
Back to Umbees: I could see why TFH or a general aquarium pub might not be interested in articles about Umbees. They're simply too large and aggressive for nearly all aquarists.
While the introduction of a new variant of umbee might seem like a big deal to some of us, reality is that new variants and varieties of fish come into the hobby all of the time. Heck, a buddy of mine just got back from a collecting trip to Peru and saw/collected bunches of Apistos, tetras and other fish he's never seen before (i.e. probably new to the hobby).
Matt
According to Ken (fishfarm), who collected them: It's real simple, we collect in the Rio Blanco because it's a smaller tributery to the Copan and easier to collect, The Rio Blanco's in the hobby came from a location about a mile from where the Blanco runs into the Copan, so basically they are all the same fish. All the fish from the Blanco and Copan came from 4 collecting trips we made from 2006-2009. Ken
Since all of the RTM stock that are in the hobby (and likely ever will be in the hobby) are from a very few wild fish (collected by Ken and Co. on the 4 trips), differences in individuals and (intentional or unintentional) line breeding is what results in the differences in red coloration (i.e. people tending to breed for more color and other aquarist-desired traits).
Back to Umbees: I could see why TFH or a general aquarium pub might not be interested in articles about Umbees. They're simply too large and aggressive for nearly all aquarists.
While the introduction of a new variant of umbee might seem like a big deal to some of us, reality is that new variants and varieties of fish come into the hobby all of the time. Heck, a buddy of mine just got back from a collecting trip to Peru and saw/collected bunches of Apistos, tetras and other fish he's never seen before (i.e. probably new to the hobby).
Matt
Here we go lol. Okay so have to chime in with 2 cents. These guys are doing something new with this hobby, they are not hybrid breeding, they are simply taking two separate strains of pure Umbee and crossing them for better looking offspring. This is no different then line breeding two separate strains of Umbee or any other pure blood fish. Example-Red Tiger Mota you have two red variants of the species hailing from two separate rivers and or locations points Rio Copan and Rio Blanco. Both are red variants of the RTM, if I breed them (and I have) the reason is to try for a more intense mix yet still maintaining the pure blood line without hybridizing the fish out. No different then what they are doing here. Personally I believe to frown upon such a thing is showing ignorance and a will to avoid change and progress. Many people have hated on Chris and his guys but especially Chris for the introduction of the Gorillas Blue and Black variant of the Umbee. Fact. However their resentment and jalousie for not BEING THE ONE compiled with ridiculous ignorance shows through for many to see. The introduction of these two color variants of arguably the largest New World cichlid in the World. Has not only breathed new life and excitement for this species (very much need prior to Chris Umbee bloodline were crap for almost a decade) into the hobby but it has also shown how a select few try to discredit and control the markets in many ways.
You got Rapps selling his fish F2 because he's too proud to ask for F1 from the source and calling them a different name, got Mr. Clean (everyone know who this is) who apparently has his hand in with TFD Magazine who recently dropped a submitted article on the subject (stating it's not the direction they are looking to go) because they have not been on each other's like list for a long time now. This I found so funny it hurt yet sad. Not a direction the leading fish mag wants to go hum. Lets see two new color variants of one of the prettiest and largest cichids in the world lol yeah would say that makes for a decent story...
Never the less every person can have their own opinion. 15 Years ago if you had a tattoo society branded you and restricted you, now they are almost excepted every where. No different here except here you have people burnt because they envy and wanted the glory. Well people cannot always have what they want.
Chris, Worldbelow and their guys are turning out some of the most stunning Umbee ever offered in the hobby and will be for a long time coming, so I guess the old school guys- although I am sure it's a hard pill to swallow for now, will just have to eat it regardless cause I know Chris and they have no plans to slow their progress...
Oh and about the Hybrid question posed, lol I dare someone to put their best looking fish up who has issues with this subject. I keep both pure and hybrid cichlids have for decades now. I would love the opportunity to smash your pipe dream and show you what a real Ornamental Show fish looks like! Remember both have their place in this hobby and Chris said it best their are no rules in this game IT'S A HOBBY son THE BASTARD IS OUT................
Shots are being fired but not at you! Im not the type to roll over and play dead but clearly you are....
No, you misunderstood me. I was referring to people "beating a dead horse" about the topic. As in, it's all been said and argued about before on here... the horse is already dead (as in it's already settled), so stop beating it.
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Lets stomp that horse now.
this is a X cross breed.
I dont care who says what. I will use what god gave me to judge for myself.
Open your eyes. It's not always what they say.
This Projct is very interesting and glad it can happen.. Ben wanting to see Umbee x Dovii and Umbee x Midas but no hope. Now a better project in in the make 100%...
this is a X cross breed.
I dont care who says what. I will use what god gave me to judge for myself.
Open your eyes. It's not always what they say.
This Projct is very interesting and glad it can happen.. Ben wanting to see Umbee x Dovii and Umbee x Midas but no hope. Now a better project in in the make 100%...
They are two Umbees that got real differences. Not like Amphs they have different names all complicated and all look very alike.
What's newer than this in the new world? This is new fish making an even newer fish..
What's newer than this in the new world? This is new fish making an even newer fish..
Lots and lots of cichlids from the new (and old) world have been formally described recently...
A small sample (there are many, many more):
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16513
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16230
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16218
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16227
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8809
http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15515
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