A few pages back there is information pertaining to what is lost between raw and cooked shrimp.
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Raw or cooked??????
- Thread starter jim barry
- Start date
A few pages back there is information pertaining to what is lost between raw and cooked shrimp.
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I'm sure every time a container of pellets are sold in the world, of any brand, RD. gets a cut! That totally makes sense.
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A little blast from the past.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?392397-Best-Builder-Food-for-rays
And within that thread from 2011, there was another link that went back a few more years. The only thing I was supporting back then was common sense, which is exactly what I am doing in this discussion today. The only difference is now I no longer have any type of vested interest in fish food, which I'm sure was very dissapointing for David W to read. In the link posted above I was actually supporting a person who feeds Hikari (imagine that!), and a person with whom I seldom agree about anything. (and I mean anything!)
I've been talking (and warning hobbyists) about the dangers of fat deposition commonly referred to as "fatty liver disease" long before the inception of MFK, including in the link posted above.
When discussing fatty liver disorder, and any species of fish, we are generally discussing the nutrient density of the food, not the lack of change. Excessive lipid deposition does not specifically come about because a diet doesn't change, it comes about when excess calories are consumed - which generally results from OVER FEEDING calorie dense foods, and/or simply feeding foods that are far too calorie rich for the species in question. Such as feeding a high growth trout chow to a herbivorous species of cichlid. Even in a juvenile stage of growth, where much higher metabolic rates are the norm, these nutrient dense types of feed can cause fat deposition in and around the organs, even in juvies that are only a few weeks old. (Ruth Francis-Floyd et al) I suppose one could view that as being caused because the person feeding that type of food didn't "change" the diet, but IMO change or the lack thereof had nothing to do with the fat deposition issue. Like usual it was a case of operator error.
We know that in the wild rays feed on a number of foods, including molluscs, crustacea, aquatic insects, as well as shrimp & fish. But can anyone here state what the OPTIMAL nutrient ratio of these *natural* foods are? Anyone? What about in the different stages of growth, and within the various different species of rays? Can anyone tell me what the metabolic requirements are for rays kept in captivity? Are there long term feed trials that have taken place with captive rays that prove what the ultimate diet is for hobbyists who keep rays in home aquariums?
If one cannot tell me with 100% certainty what the ideal amino acid, lipid, fiber, vitamin & mineral profile should be of the feed they give to a ray on a regular (or non-regular for those who mimic seasonal variations in their tanks) basis then this entire debate is a moot point.
BTW Matt, if you go back & read my comments in the link posted at the beginning of this post you will find that I happen to agree with much of what you have to say on this subject.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?392397-Best-Builder-Food-for-rays
And within that thread from 2011, there was another link that went back a few more years. The only thing I was supporting back then was common sense, which is exactly what I am doing in this discussion today. The only difference is now I no longer have any type of vested interest in fish food, which I'm sure was very dissapointing for David W to read. In the link posted above I was actually supporting a person who feeds Hikari (imagine that!), and a person with whom I seldom agree about anything. (and I mean anything!)
I've been talking (and warning hobbyists) about the dangers of fat deposition commonly referred to as "fatty liver disease" long before the inception of MFK, including in the link posted above.
When discussing fatty liver disorder, and any species of fish, we are generally discussing the nutrient density of the food, not the lack of change. Excessive lipid deposition does not specifically come about because a diet doesn't change, it comes about when excess calories are consumed - which generally results from OVER FEEDING calorie dense foods, and/or simply feeding foods that are far too calorie rich for the species in question. Such as feeding a high growth trout chow to a herbivorous species of cichlid. Even in a juvenile stage of growth, where much higher metabolic rates are the norm, these nutrient dense types of feed can cause fat deposition in and around the organs, even in juvies that are only a few weeks old. (Ruth Francis-Floyd et al) I suppose one could view that as being caused because the person feeding that type of food didn't "change" the diet, but IMO change or the lack thereof had nothing to do with the fat deposition issue. Like usual it was a case of operator error.
We know that in the wild rays feed on a number of foods, including molluscs, crustacea, aquatic insects, as well as shrimp & fish. But can anyone here state what the OPTIMAL nutrient ratio of these *natural* foods are? Anyone? What about in the different stages of growth, and within the various different species of rays? Can anyone tell me what the metabolic requirements are for rays kept in captivity? Are there long term feed trials that have taken place with captive rays that prove what the ultimate diet is for hobbyists who keep rays in home aquariums?
If one cannot tell me with 100% certainty what the ideal amino acid, lipid, fiber, vitamin & mineral profile should be of the feed they give to a ray on a regular (or non-regular for those who mimic seasonal variations in their tanks) basis then this entire debate is a moot point.
BTW Matt, if you go back & read my comments in the link posted at the beginning of this post you will find that I happen to agree with much of what you have to say on this subject.
It's a good topic, for the first time I fed my fish cooked shrimp, after years of keeping fish ,
they loved it, I do feed a mix of fresh shrimp, pellets and worms and smelts to my rays in that order, but I wanted to try some cooked ones. I also feed my two 10" lionfish, and my reef tank and every scrap of cooked shrimp was eaten, that's all I got to say
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they loved it, I do feed a mix of fresh shrimp, pellets and worms and smelts to my rays in that order, but I wanted to try some cooked ones. I also feed my two 10" lionfish, and my reef tank and every scrap of cooked shrimp was eaten, that's all I got to say
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I have limited access to the net being in hospital
If pellets are so bad it means a large amount of fish we keep are being fed badly
Look at what a lot of other fish are fed
The only food some fish get is flake or pellets and has been for years
What makes rays any different to other fish we keep
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If pellets are so bad it means a large amount of fish we keep are being fed badly
Look at what a lot of other fish are fed
The only food some fish get is flake or pellets and has been for years
What makes rays any different to other fish we keep
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Toddlers will always eat candy.
It's not really what they will eat that matters as much as what they will eat that also gives them adequate nutrition. Steaming or boiling eliminates some vitamins. Frying does the same and adds unwanted fats.
If rays don't need vitamins or if they do and they get them somewhere else in adequate amounts, then all is good.
As stated before I only use prawn/shrimp as a filler to fill my rays up
They get all the good stuff from the pellets
Shrimp prawn cooked or uncooked a just full of water which is why they freeze so well
I don't even defrost my prawns before feeding I take them out of the freezer and dump them in the tank the rays seam to like the cold feeling
I think pellets are a good thing if its good enough for every other type of fish it's good for my rays
I have never had a problem with pellets and cooked prawn so why change something unless its broken
I have been down the road of changing my original plan by messing with the filtration with the moving bed and had problems so I'm not messing with food
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They get all the good stuff from the pellets
Shrimp prawn cooked or uncooked a just full of water which is why they freeze so well
I don't even defrost my prawns before feeding I take them out of the freezer and dump them in the tank the rays seam to like the cold feeling
I think pellets are a good thing if its good enough for every other type of fish it's good for my rays
I have never had a problem with pellets and cooked prawn so why change something unless its broken
I have been down the road of changing my original plan by messing with the filtration with the moving bed and had problems so I'm not messing with food
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I know someone else that throws food in frozen, i've always been opposed to the idea myself, it just doesn't feel right somehow?
I can say though, after this topic i did try the rays on cooked, raw, shelled and unshelled prawns and they seemed to prefer cooked and with the shell off
Hope everything is ok T1
I can say though, after this topic i did try the rays on cooked, raw, shelled and unshelled prawns and they seemed to prefer cooked and with the shell off
Hope everything is ok T1
