Northfin food
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Carry on feeding NF, no one is forcing you to feed NLS? But if you want facts.... Then you may want to brace yourself because you ain't going to like it.
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And what exactly should I be getting real about?
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He'll have to ask Neal that. Think he's all out of clap, claps and LOLs. That's the limit of his input like the rest of the bandwagon on here. They remind me of the little dog Alfie egging the bulldog on. Get him Brutus, Get im.. Don't worry. Neal will cut and paste something for you. It may be 5 years old and irrelevant but by the time the clap claps are done the question will be forgotten.
Neal seems to think that the actual protein content of N.L.S. is a big secret so that the competitors can't copy their formula. Go figure++ but anybody that makes fish food can obviously measure their content as well as anyone elses'. Neil keeps insinuating that they keep their label down to 34% but that their content is actually higher but don't want any hassle crossing state lines in case of fluctuation. Maybe 20 years ago it might be an issue but unlike Neil, Quality control has hopefully improved. Every penny counts. N.L.S.s protein is actually 34 or at the highest 35. Probably why my carnivores like Northfin better. More fish, less terrestrial vegetable matter or whatever you want to call whole wheat flour.
Neal seems to think that the actual protein content of N.L.S. is a big secret so that the competitors can't copy their formula. Go figure++ but anybody that makes fish food can obviously measure their content as well as anyone elses'. Neil keeps insinuating that they keep their label down to 34% but that their content is actually higher but don't want any hassle crossing state lines in case of fluctuation. Maybe 20 years ago it might be an issue but unlike Neil, Quality control has hopefully improved. Every penny counts. N.L.S.s protein is actually 34 or at the highest 35. Probably why my carnivores like Northfin better. More fish, less terrestrial vegetable matter or whatever you want to call whole wheat flour.
Personally, if I read a thread on a particular brand of food, I like it broken down a bit past the bright colors and fancy marketing. The whole, "yeah I've used it for 3 weeks and my fish look great" doesn't cut it for me. Thats just not enough. Opinions are great, and useful, but I dig in deeper into what I feed myself, family, dogs and my fish. Nutrition is much more than what we see on the surface. Throw enough random calories at anything and you'll get growth. How much is lean muscle and how much is fat is determined by the makeup of those calories and how they are to be used.
Understanding the dietary requirements of freshwater fish is something I'm just now really learning about, and thanks to guys like Neil, I learn alot and guesswork is eliminated. I go to school for a bit. Then, I do what I want with the opinions and data and apply it to my situation.
I've been feeding Xtreme the better part of 2 years, exclusively to some tanks, and have had lots of conversations with Neil about the pros and cons of it vs NLS, and vice versa. Sure it's not his food of choice, but not once did he try to sway me from using my feed. Ironically, I have recently switched from Xtreme to NLS on all fry and growouts, but it was news to Neil after I did. I have my own reasons for switching and have found NLS to be better suited for my personal situation at this point.
Trust me, I'd love to try Northfin and have the means to run side by side testing, but I can't get it. Not in Florida evidently. Too bad because it does look like a pretty decent food.
And for the record, I believe the NLS community and Cichlid formulas have 34% protein. The other formulas are quite a bit higher. This from the label of the 10mm I feed to my adult fish.
" This is a sinking pellet that is 10 mm in size. MAIN INGREDIENTS: Krill Meal, Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Amino Acids, Algae Meal, Soybean Meal, Fish Oil, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine, Biotin. GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Protein 42% Min., Fat 6% Min., Fiber 4% Max., Ash 8% Max., Moisture 10% Max. "
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I did say that was just an example. It's a simplified one at that. I still say, that from what I have seen, it is difficult to discuss a brand of food without having NLS thrown in peoples faces. I was told to use the ignore feature if I didnt like what was being said. Why can't some people be selective about which threads they take part in IF and i stress IF they feel they can't take part without going off on one about NLS. Honestly, I can't be the only one sick of it? Can I? It's the same broken record every time.
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I gets brought up every time because Neil has done a great job of giving scientific reasons why NLS is better than anything else out there. Including northfin. And when he says it it backs up what he spouts with scientific facts. Something that still hasn't been done by you or the owner or anyone else. You have FAILED to scientifically prove Northfin is better in any way. The closest you've came is " oh the label says it has higher protein. That means carnivores do better on it." I call that conjecture. Until you can scientifically prove it truly does have higher protein, that is all just here say. And I for one, if I felt the need to have higher protein in my carnivores diet( I don't) I would supplement with other freeze dried foods, or squid. That would put the available protein way higher and I would still be using the superior staple. Fish need a lot more than protein and while I believe Northfin is the closest thing nutritionally to NLS, why settle for second best? The fact that none of you have been able to scientifically prove that northfin is better by now, tells me that it isn't. If it had some edge over NLS in any area, you guys would be ramming it down our throats. I'll take facts any day any time, but this pointless finger pointing and conjecture truly is gaining this company nothing. Go out there and gather your facts and prove that northfin is better and than NLS and maybe you will gain some real respect. Scientifically.
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No interest at all in getting in the middle of the debate going on here, so not commenting on NLS vs. Northfin or some of the other comments in the thread... and not going to critique the above comment or say anything negative... But, having been down the road of objectively doing some pretty thorough testing of a number of foods over the years, including Wardley, if you're happy with Wardley I strongly suspect you'd be impressed with a number of other products out there. I'd go as far as to say if you objectively try out certain other products, whether Northfin, NLS, or certain others, it may turn out to be a new chapter for you in the hobby.
Ian ...... perhaps you missed it, but this thread was started LAST October, by a member (whom I had personally conversed with on other subjects), and who hasn't even posted on MFK since last Dec. I commented to Mike because at that time there were only a few stores in his general area of Canada that even carried this food, which is why I suggested that he try a local forum to ask for others experience. NO ONE here would be able to give any input on something that they had never used, and had no access to. (at the time) Do you get it yet??? Mike, myself, and one other person (who had never used the food) were the only people who posted in the original discussion. At least I attempted to assist him - you did NOTHING.
Then almost a year later, along comes pongo, a close friend of the manufacturer, and off he goes on his mini advertising campaign. Even that dear pongo wouldn't let go, he had to bump it up yet again, and this time go on the offensive on his close friends behalf. So yeah, I felt the need to respond to his BS, and still do.
Don't like it? Too bad. I honestly don't give a flying fig what you like, or don't like. The only thing that I am "throwing in peoples faces" is some reality.
People are free to discuss anything they want on a public forum, but that doesn't mean that I am going to sit back while someone goes on & one posting pure BS about something they know almost nothing about, other than what their close friend (the manufacturer) has been feeding them. Someone who has never once had to deal with the red tape of shipping tropical fish food across state lines (or internationally), and who is so dense that they don't even realize that NATURAL food stuffs such as krill, herring, and even aquatic plant matter, can all fluctuate in their nutrient make up depending on the time of the season of when they are collected, and even exactly where they are collected. Below is just one small example of what I am referring to.
http://www.tharos.biz/update-on-krill-lipids-processing-other-compounds/
This is exactly why many large scale commercial feed mills will list a guaranteed analysis, and a typical analysis on their feed. These are natural food stuffs, that go through natural cycles of feeding, breeding, etc and ALL of this can & will effect their nutrient profile.
And I never said that NLS was 10% over what they have listed on their label, I said that no one (ie govt regulators) would care if it was - their job is to ensure that the minimum standards listed on the label are in fact being met. Believe it or not, some companies cheat on those numbers, and their food gets rejected. I have seen reports from various state regulatory bodies where just that has happened. Some here would be surprised at some of the companies that have been caught with their pants down. It happens, whether on purpose or accident.
Some tropical food manufacturers list their products in the same manner (guaranteed/typical), although usualy not on the label itself. As an example, the following link shows a guaranteed analysis for Hikari Massivore, as well as a typical analysis.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16872
Note that the fat content listed in the typical analysis is twice as high as what is found in the guaranteed analysis shown on their label. That, and the crude protein is actually 4% higher than what is stated on their label. Even their max ash content listed on the label is adjusted by 3% to ensure that they don't go over the guaranteed maximum percentage.
Maybe you know more about all of this scientific stuff than Hikari does, too, pongo?
This thread has become an idiotic waste of time for me, feed it, smoke it, use it as a sex toy, I really don't care.
Then almost a year later, along comes pongo, a close friend of the manufacturer, and off he goes on his mini advertising campaign. Even that dear pongo wouldn't let go, he had to bump it up yet again, and this time go on the offensive on his close friends behalf. So yeah, I felt the need to respond to his BS, and still do.
Don't like it? Too bad. I honestly don't give a flying fig what you like, or don't like. The only thing that I am "throwing in peoples faces" is some reality.
People are free to discuss anything they want on a public forum, but that doesn't mean that I am going to sit back while someone goes on & one posting pure BS about something they know almost nothing about, other than what their close friend (the manufacturer) has been feeding them. Someone who has never once had to deal with the red tape of shipping tropical fish food across state lines (or internationally), and who is so dense that they don't even realize that NATURAL food stuffs such as krill, herring, and even aquatic plant matter, can all fluctuate in their nutrient make up depending on the time of the season of when they are collected, and even exactly where they are collected. Below is just one small example of what I am referring to.
http://www.tharos.biz/update-on-krill-lipids-processing-other-compounds/
This is exactly why many large scale commercial feed mills will list a guaranteed analysis, and a typical analysis on their feed. These are natural food stuffs, that go through natural cycles of feeding, breeding, etc and ALL of this can & will effect their nutrient profile.
And I never said that NLS was 10% over what they have listed on their label, I said that no one (ie govt regulators) would care if it was - their job is to ensure that the minimum standards listed on the label are in fact being met. Believe it or not, some companies cheat on those numbers, and their food gets rejected. I have seen reports from various state regulatory bodies where just that has happened. Some here would be surprised at some of the companies that have been caught with their pants down. It happens, whether on purpose or accident.
Some tropical food manufacturers list their products in the same manner (guaranteed/typical), although usualy not on the label itself. As an example, the following link shows a guaranteed analysis for Hikari Massivore, as well as a typical analysis.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16872
Note that the fat content listed in the typical analysis is twice as high as what is found in the guaranteed analysis shown on their label. That, and the crude protein is actually 4% higher than what is stated on their label. Even their max ash content listed on the label is adjusted by 3% to ensure that they don't go over the guaranteed maximum percentage.
Maybe you know more about all of this scientific stuff than Hikari does, too, pongo?
This thread has become an idiotic waste of time for me, feed it, smoke it, use it as a sex toy, I really don't care.
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