Final catfish for my 75 gallon

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
thebiggerthebetter said:
Lima maxes out at 2', elongatus at 1'.

Here is a small write-up I made on lima/elongatus.

These are ambush predators that stay/float vertically, head down among vegetation pretending to be a twig or a plant and wait for a suitable prey to come by too close.

Young Sorubim species like the company of each other; adults don't care.

IME and IMO, the vast majority of people thinking they are buying a Sorubim lima are actually buying a Sorubim elongatus in the US, so chances are great that yours is S. elongatus, which tops out at 1', not 2' as S. lima does.

They are quite hard to tell apart from the exterior features for laymen like us: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30938&hilit=+elongatus (that's one of mine I was trying hard to ID). As you could see, our colleague Back (high level hobbyist) from Finland thinks the position of the mandibular barbels with respect to the gular and other skull features may be telling. I do not remember this approach having been validated by a known respected ichthyologist but I think the latest genus revision justifies this ID approach.

I've never seen a 2' one in person, not even one longer than 11"-12" TL, while I have owned and seen scores of them. Mine never grew beyond ~11", which makes me assume they were all elongatus but I have not had them long enough to be dead sure. For now, this leads me to believe that most/almost all we have in the US are elongatus. I have seen only 1 or 2 approximately two-footers on the photos originating from the USA here on MFK (here are some pics of an almost fully grown lima: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...e-lima-shovelnose-catfish&highlight=elongatus ) and a few in between 1' and 2'. Our colleagues in Europe say they see 2'-ers sometimes, not that rarely.

The Cat-eLog entry for elongatus http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=697offers kind of soft ID: "...Very generally, Sorubim with spots are usually S. elongatus. (TBTB edit: as opposed to the other 4 species in this genus; this appears mostly true IME with ~20 of these fish.) They are more of a black water species and, as with most such species, tend towards more variable, spotted patterning."

They need not live feedings, unless we are talking earth worms or ghost shrimp, lizards, land frogs, etc. They are small predators that snatch small fish (anything that can fit in their mouth which is relatively and surprisingly big for their slender body structure but not that big compared to other medium and large Pimelodidae catfish), crustaceans, insects in the wild. I always feed mine frozen/thawed foods - small whole fishes, fish pieces, shrimp/prawn/etc. or their pieces if too large (do not peel; raw is better than cooked), and sea foods.

They can be trained to take pellets but the cases where they thrive on pellets are very few it appears to me, even on Hikari Massivore pellets. I have never seen them fat and happy on pellets, rather always thin and slow-growing. Anyone, correct me, please, if your experience differs.

When small, mine like freeze-dried and fresh bloodworms, plankton (mini-shrimp-like creatures), etc.

The growth on elongatus is not fast, perhaps 6"-7" in one year starting from ~3". As you see my experience with lima is most likely zero, so IDK how fast they grow. The fact that they reach 2x larger adult size may or may not matter.

Check this excellent link: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sorubim-lima/ - the info is well written and arranged. In the notes it says: " (TBTB: S. lima is) Distinguished from S. elongatus by having modally 9 pectoral rays; 21 anal-fin rays; 16 gill rakers..." The page does not state the counts for elongatus anywhere. Neither have I found a species page for S. elongatus. Unless I am missing something, I find this odd and not as helpful as it could have been otherwise. All other pointers refer to things that are subjective. Nevertheless, I enjoyed reading the page and learned a lot.
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I disagree. My lima eats ANYTHING. Flakes, Hikari gold, algae wafers, bloodworms shrimp and feeders. He out eats my arowana.


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Very well. Happy to see your experience differs. As stated, I've met few exceptions to my general observation. The more of such "exceptions" we see, the more we evolve as hobbyists.
 
FuriousFish said:
I disagree. My lima eats ANYTHING. Flakes, Hikari gold, algae wafers, bloodworms shrimp and feeders. He out eats my arowana.


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so if I just called my LFS tonight and ordered a small "Lima shovelnose catfish" then you think it would be ok? I am NOT positive I will get elongatus even though there is a good chance i will. I MUST know that it will be alright in my 75 with my other fish for up to 2 years. Not changing my entire stock for this fish and it can't eat the (when fully grown at 4") giant danios.

if you and some others are positive this will work then I'm going for it but I need to know for sure (with the exception of a rogue fish) that it meets all my requirement and will also not push me over my bioload.
 
If by chance i wound up with sorubim lima how long would it last in my 75?
 
divemaster99 said:
If by chance i wound up with sorubim lima how long would it last in my 75?
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Like stated, they are rare and unless labled sorubim lima it will 99.9% be elongatus. And I believe that limas have a thicker stripe or something i dont know... And since not many people have had sorubim limas grow to 18+ inches there is very limited info on growth rate... But because of tge fact little monster limas exist, I would assume it takes a long time... If I had to guess they probably will get to 10-12 inches at a steady rate but then slow down growth DRAMATICALLY once they get to be 12 inches... Just my guess... You should be good for a while... Trust me, elongatus are GREAT fish! It is for sure one of my all time favorites I have kept! I have mine with a small convict and growout tinfoil barbs and he ignores them... So not quite as a vicious eater/killer as a red tail catfish but elongatus for sure have the appetite of a red tail! I have kept mine with small senegal bichirs, skirt tetras, convicts, a firemouth etc. over about a year ive had him and he has never eaten a tankmate... But they are lightning quick ambush predators! When it stikes a feeder fish my camera shooting at 120 frames per second only captures a blur. SO fun to watch! Good luck!


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Thanks furiousfish I think will get one then but just as ONE LAST guarantee:

stocking:

x 1 severum
x 1 convict cichlid
x 1 geophagus (I forget the species name but it's a redhead that gets 7")
x 6 giant danios
x 1 rainbow shark
x 1 striped raphael catfish
x 1 sailfin pleco (for 2 years)
x 1 Lima shovelnose (sorubim elongatus)

temp: 76 F
ph: 7.6
wc schedule: weekly
feeding: cichlids get new life spectrum. Catfish get shrimp pellets or bloodworms (whichever I have), and the Lima gets silversides as a treat every now and then.

if this is fine then that's my plan and please confirm it. if not pleas help me edit. Thanks guys :)
 
Not sure if anyone saw my last post, trying to keep the thread alive for one last post from others.
 
You shouldnt be preparing for the smaller one but the larger one and I would not put one in a 75 for two years. It's a stick it can't turn on a dime so when it gets around 12" won't be that much room in a 18" especially if it decides to freak out. Why Wont it eat the danios? 4" isnt big for a catfish and I feel the shark would be endanger too. I say leave the lima out keep the rest

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Runitis said:
You shouldnt be preparing for the smaller one but the larger one and I would not put one in a 75 for two years. It's a stick it can't turn on a dime so when it gets around 12" won't be that much room in a 18" especially if it decides to freak out. Why Wont it eat the danios? 4" isnt big for a catfish and I feel the shark would be endanger too. I say leave the lima out keep the rest

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Alright, I suppose that makes sense (always be prepared right?). Then which of the other cats on the list would you say to go with?
 
On an unrelated note I subbed you on YouTube a few weeks ago, had no idea that was your channel until I clicked on the link in your signature. Nice channel!
 
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