Lacerdae hoplias ID?

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fugupuff said:
ok, so I received 4 different type of these wolves directly from Argentina.

1. small green ones exported as Lacerdae from Argentina, the guy exporting these fish has been around these fish all his life, so I'm taking his word for it.
2. the hoplias cf. lacerdae "red" and "green" from Alto Parana, which is near Iguazu Falls, borders 3 countries Paraguay/Southern tip of Brazil, and northern tip of Argentina,
these have the higher back and long snouth, only got a handful of these most all sold and shipped out
3. a couple blunt head, 7" ones that were sold as Hoplias australis, looks like Jacob's big "australis" in the other thread but smaller version

Funny thing is even though these 3 types all have different body shape, mouth, and colors, their jaw lines are not a complete "U", and not complete "V"., kind of in between, which would make them "australis" but they cannot all be "australis" either.

Per fishfarm, Ken Davis, malabaricus does not exist in Uruguay, which is where he is collecting, and non of my fish come from where he is collecting, but its near by. Take distance and proximity into consideration.

The couple of "lacerdae" that people say are confirmed, have big eyes and long snout, kind of like the cf. lacerdae I got, but still a little different. Most of those came from, some say "lower xingu"., which is far from where these are collected, a couple of thousand miles away.

Jacob did say he has one that is from Ken? and its confirmed Lacerdae... the one that DBjunkie got from Ken that was sold as Lacerdae is obviously not the same fish...so the question and questions continue. Here is a picture of the little green ones jaw line I took last night. What do you all think? View attachment 1071072
Click to expand...
Lacerdae i think need a better pic
 
SharptoothBass said:
I feel you man i been chasing gobys for years. I would think the pikes would be a no brainer for you. I actually dont like the lacs because of the flat head and hump back. My favorite wolves are the blacks and i do like the aus, i like he one jacob has posted a lot. Im thinking of maybe trying aimara once i get some other things sorted out. Im also curious to see what the little green guys grow into.
Click to expand...

Aimara have the same hunchback as Lac, so you probably won't like them...... lol.....
 
fugupuff said:
Here is a picture of the little green ones jaw line I took last night. What do you all think? View attachment 1071072
Click to expand...
From that it looks to be parallel so I'd say lac, but the shape is much different. So maybe a new species in the group? I think it should be grown out to see what it really is. If it has no ID then, then maybe it's a new species. Or maybe it's a lac with a different shape just like the aimaras and malas can be shaped a bit different, and all fish species really for that matter. If you can, get a shot with its gills not extended so we could have a better look at it the way we've been looking at the rest and can compare it in a similar way.
 
My head hurts reading all this and the old thread with Filipe. And I am not even a wolf fan.
 
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Yea...this thread is till going. I thought it was over but good to see some good discussion going on.

Like others said likely a lac.

One thing I will mention is that Ken did mention there are cf malas there. Also in prior threads and replies from Felipe himself he mentions there are malas there as well.

Fish farm mentioned this earlier in the post to find.

Years ago there were lacs and aus coming to owners on this forum. The location was never found by me on searches and I don't recall. Getting old as this morning I confused a minion and a meme lol. They lacs were identified as intermedius.

These guys have the jaw folds in b/w a u and v. I wonder if these are the same and their distribution needs to be re-evaluated.

These fish will have 4-6 pores on the lower jaw with a fold in b/w a u and a v and they are differentiated by their scale counts. They look like lacs as well. But I've see. Intermedius look like the red guys that Wes brought in and regret giving away. Intermedius are not readily available at all. By the way I have never seen a brasi yet so not sure. I know of one guy with a confirmed inter and will ask if I can use his pics.

Brave heart when he was on the forum ID'd a few himself on the forum
Check the pic below. Let me add more confusion to the already confused.

Shadow Stryker forget go back and look at DB's lac, Lucy. Your fire will be re-ignited.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

ImageUploadedByMonsterAquariaNetwork1429447628.536959.jpg
 
kno4te said:
Yea...this thread is till going. I thought it was over but good to see some good discussion going on.

Like others said likely a lac.

One thing I will mention is that Ken did mention there are cf malas there. Also in pprior threads and replies from Felipe himself he mentions there are malas there as well.

Fish farm mentioned this earlier in the post to find.

Years ago there were lacs and aus coming to owners on this forum. The location was never found by me on searches and I don't recall. Getting old as this morning I confused a minion and a meme lol. They lacs were identified as intermedius.

These guys have the jaw folds in b/w a u and v. I wonder if these are the same and their distribution needs to be re-evaluated.

These fish will have 4-6 pores on the lower jaw with a fold in b/w a u and a v and they are differentiated by their scale counts. They look like lacs as well. But I've see. Intermedius look like the red guys that Wes brought in and regret giving away. Intermedius are not readily available at all. By the way I have never seen a brasi yet so not sure. I know of one guy with a confirmed inter and will ask if I can use his pics.

Brave heart when he was on the forum ID'd a few himself on the forum
Check the pic below. Let me add more confusion to the already confused.

Shadow Stryker forget go back and look at DB's lac, Lucy. Your fire will be re-ignited.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
Click to expand...

Nah, Al is a ray buddy and was just a tease at you guys. Used to see these type of threads in the ray forum. I enjoy reading these threads but I wont ever be a wolf guy. Rather save the bottom of my tanks for ray carpet. :D
 
kno4te said:
Yea...this thread is till going. I thought it was over but good to see some good discussion going on.

Like others said likely a lac.

One thing I will mention is that Ken did mention there are cf malas there. Also in prior threads and replies from Felipe himself he mentions there are malas there as well.

Fish farm mentioned this earlier in the post to find.

Years ago there were lacs and aus coming to owners on this forum. The location was never found by me on searches and I don't recall. Getting old as this morning I confused a minion and a meme lol. They lacs were identified as intermedius.

These guys have the jaw folds in b/w a u and v. I wonder if these are the same and their distribution needs to be re-evaluated.

These fish will have 4-6 pores on the lower jaw with a fold in b/w a u and a v and they are differentiated by their scale counts. They look like lacs as well. But I've see. Intermedius look like the red guys that Wes brought in and regret giving away. Intermedius are not readily available at all. By the way I have never seen a brasi yet so not sure. I know of one guy with a confirmed inter and will ask if I can use his pics.

Brave heart when he was on the forum ID'd a few himself on the forum
Check the pic below. Let me add more confusion to the already confused.

Shadow Stryker forget go back and look at DB's lac, Lucy. Your fire will be re-ignited.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
Click to expand...
looks a little like a Hoplias Australis but im not 100% on it where is this one from?
 
ShadowStryder said:
My head hurts reading all this and the old thread with Filipe. And I am not even a wolf fan.
Click to expand...

You're probably not a fan if you've never kept one, but if you give them the chance you'll see why we love em so much. ;)

They posses personalities I've only ever seen in puffers. :)

From an interaction standpoint Lucy is definitely my favorite fish I've ever kept.

And Aimara are guard dogs for your expensive rays. They're actually a very worthy investment. IF a thief was to ever try to steal your rays the Aimara would try to steal his phalanges.
 
Reading up on Hoplias SP Iguaza throws another wrench into things. Apparently Iguaza is considered a "mala" variant, yet I've spoke with someone on this forum who claims to have seen a 30" Iguaza. Having a hard time believing with the spoon head and hunch back that this is indeed a "mala" variant. Yet aren't these lil spoon headed buggers being ID'd as Lacs by the jaw lines?
 
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