Does overstocking work in CA?

[LogiBear]

Hi!!

Everything im about to post hasnt happened, and more than likely wont. Its more me just wondering about some stuff, and wanting to see if anyone could give me some answers backed up by a bit of logic.

So, at pretty much every LFS ever. You walk in, see that 75 in the center of the room. It has like 3 Oscars, a Red Devil, maybe a Flowerhorn... Pair of Cons and a Jack Dempsey.

Overstocked. Duh. But alive?

Is the reason for this:
-no territorial boundaries
-spread out aggression
-not quite fully grown fish (although big enough to be territorial and kill)


Or something else?

Could i replicate this at home, carefully monitored, as a legitamate setup, where they can live out their daily functions and not kill each other (i know about Rouge fish... Is there a big chance of that happening?) or would it be impossible?

Take out maintenance and filtration... Would the fish be able to get along?

And more important to me: would they still be able to show some personality, or would they be brain-dead?
Thanks

 

[ehh]

the difference between your house and a petstore is that stock is always coming in and out. why do you think theyre never fully grown lol .
and even in a petstore, fish eventually have to be moved around due to someone getting their ass whooped.
its not like keeping them at home and allowing one or two of them to establish a territory with its long term tanks mates.

the idea of not being able to establish territories doesnt always work. if a fish wants to dominate half a tank... it will. not amount of stock will change that. especially when youre dealing with a smaller tank like a 75.

its not impossible but its not likely. and even if you do get it to work its a pisspoor environment in my opinion. there is always one or two fish that are the weaker links. sue theyre alive but theyre being punked all day long.

ime, ca/sa community tanks only work with smaller fish or in very big tanks, like, 200+ gallons.

 

[LogiBear]

the difference between your house and a petstore is that stock is always coming in and out. why do you think theyre never fully grown lol .
and even in a petstore, fish eventually have to be moved around due to someone getting their ass whooped.
its not like keeping them at home and allowing one or two of them to establish a territory with its long term tanks mates.

the idea of not being able to establish territories doesnt always work. if a fish wants to dominate half a tank... it will. not amount of stock will change that. especially when youre dealing with a smaller tank like a 75.

its not impossible but its not likely. and even if you do get it to work its a pisspoor environment in my opinion. there is always one or two fish that are the weaker links. sue theyre alive but theyre being punked all day long.

ime, ca/sa community tanks only work with smaller fish or in very big tanks, like, 200+ gallons.

True, the switching out thing makes sense.

At my LFS however, im basically the only person who buys a big fish (ive kept switching them out and will continue until one clicks) and whenever i walk in with a bucket the owner grins and knows that im buying a big 'un.

So i know that they at least stay there for a few months, not like they are just there for a week.

And yeah, i dont like the idea of having some fish being beat up on constantly, although if i was to try, that would happen... And it would be a pretty sad environment...

If i was to try (99% sure i wont) is there any ways that it could be made more likely? Lack of boundaries, for example, so they dot have specific areas to guard?

 

[ehh]

if you were to try it and wanted success dont start with anything less than a 180 gallon.

or go with smaller species. convicts, fire mouths, acaras ect.....

 

[Buphy]

To the general question, yes. However on a much larger scale. 75 not so much but imagine 10 amphilophus in a 300 gallon tank. Sure it's "over stocked" but it's better than the smaller break down of 1 amphilophus per 30 gallons. Hope that makes sense. Anyways, really agree with pretty much everything Ehh said too.

 

[HybridHerp]

Plus, keep in mind, a LFS can easily remove problem fish or remove dead fish before any customers even get to see them. 9/10 times a LFS tank is more like a holding tank that lasts a week to a month (maybe 2 or 3 months with larger fish) and is constantly being messed with and getting a lot of traffic from workers and customers.

A home aquarium doesn't have the same luxury of being able to move around fish at a moment's notice or having nearly the same levels of traffic going around it. Tbh, if someone set up a home tank the way a LFS tank is set up I'd expect it to be a ticking time bomb more than anything.

 

[pops]

No, I am not going into the reasons why, these are self evident to any one that knows anything about keeping them. IMHO

 

[RD.]

It depends on the fish, and the size of tank. All community tanks that contain potentially aggressive and/or larger species are a risk, and a gamble, and every situation is different. Can it be done, absolutely, can it be done where the fish aren't getting punked on, and most days are calm seas for the most part, absolutely. It takes some skill, and enough fish smarts to know when something needs to be tweaked. No different than keeping a tank full of large aggro African cichlids, same concept, same techniques applied. Buddy's tank is a prime example of this style of set up working successfully long term.

http://monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/mostly-amphilophs.651068/

Can one do this in a 75 gallon tank, with larger CA species? Doh, no! Those types of tanks never work out long term. Never.

 

[LogiBear]

No, I am not going into the reasons why, these are self evident to any one that knows anything about keeping them. IMHO

Hmm. Thanks for that.

Ive kept CA and SA cichlidsfor several years. Ive seen them kill each other, i know they are aggressive. Im not as dumb as you think. Thats why im here, asking, instead of doing it. And if you actuall read the post, it said "backed with logic" (which you didnt do) and "99% sure i wont do this".

Im asking about it to learn more. It seems to work at the LFS, why couldnt it work with me? I didnt think of the fact they can swap fish out. So, i learned. I hope that isnt too big a problem for you..

So yeah. Thanks.

 

[duanes]

A friend on mine had/has (haven't seen it in a year), a tank with 2 pair of festae(males 10" females 6"), some carpintus (@7"), and about 8 African mbuna @7"). It is a 200gal+, with a large sump, and is almost unbelievably calm. If I hadn't seen it myself I might not believe it. All the fish grew up together, and were added as 2" juvies at the same time.
He watches the tank like a hawk though, and removes, and adds back fish if the dynamic changes, to tanks always set up, and at the ready.
I have also had temporary set ups like this, but they seldom last.