Water hardness realities compared to what people say..

[duanes]

It's not so much the hardness itself, but in mineral rich water, certain bacteria that many soft water fish such as Uaru fernandezyepezi are not immune to are common, long term adverse health effects can take place. Many of these take time to surface (such as HITH) and are oftenattributed to other causes. And in reality many people lose fish for others reasons before these adverse effects have the to disfigure.
I have found if tannins (antibacterial) are provided (as they are in many soft water fish natural habitats) the effects of hard water can be reduced.
Although fish are adaptable, millions of years of evolution to certain conditions, are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[dan518]

Could be clown loaches can survive well in hard water could be people are mixing tap water with rain or ro water I must admit I am no expert on loaches, I do know alot of sa cichlids suffer in hard water conditions

 

[TxDemb4theoilOligarchs]

It's not so much the hardness itself, but in mineral rich water, certain bacteria that many soft water fish such as Uaru fernandezyepezi are not immune to are common, long term adverse health effects can take place. Many of these take time to surface (such as HITH) and are oftenattributed to other causes. And in reality many people lose fish for others reasons before these adverse effects have the to disfigure.
I have found if tannins (antibacterial) are provided (as they are in many soft water fish natural habitats) the effects of hard water can be reduced.
Although fish are adaptable, millions of years of evolution to certain conditions, are nothing to sneeze at.

But just the same, how do you know the HITH was caused, no matter the timeframe, by hardwater? That's mere speculation..


Also plenty of fish in soft water tanks have developed HITH, so again, I find that basically speculative at best.

 

[TxDemb4theoilOligarchs]

Could be clown loaches can survive well in hard water could be people are mixing tap water with rain or ro water I must admit I am no expert on loaches, I do know alot of sa cichlids suffer in hard water conditions

Yes but you as well as I surely know that there are thousands of tanks with SA cichlids in hard water tanks where the fish are giant and healthy, so I just have a hard time believing that the fish cannot adapt fully or at least near fully to hard water. I mean obviously they are or they wouldn't be living 10+ years to the sizes they are.

 

[dan518]

Yes but you as well as I surely know that there are thousands of tanks with SA cichlids in hard water tanks where the fish are giant and healthy, so I just have a hard time believing that the fish cannot adapt fully or at least near fully to hard water. I mean obviously they are or they wouldn't be living 10+ years to the sizes they are.

Disagree with you a bit there I have seen more sa cichlids that look like poo when there older then decent specimens. Also your saying it's speculative what duanes said how many ca cichlids do you see with hole in the head.

 

[TxDemb4theoilOligarchs]

Disagree with you a bit there I have seen more sa cichlids that look like poo when there older then decent specimens. Also your saying it's speculative what duanes said how many ca cichlids do you see with hole in the head.

Tons. Again this supposed "water Hardness dogma" seems to me to be really just speculation that is readily accepted as holy when it directly conflicts with the realities of our hobby that encompasses millions of aquarists with hard water tanks and giant soft water fish..

I mean I can agree with you if you want but honestly I'd just be agreeing...... I don't actually believe that's true. Based on youtube alone and the absolutely giant soft water fish in hard water tanks it's hard if not impossible for me to believe soft water fish can't do well in hard water.

 

[dan518]

Don't mind at all if you don't agree with me, disagreeing with people is always good and challenging what people consider to be facts is always good it forces people to rethink things or try to prove it

 

[flukekiller]

i think that your over all statement is just too broad... there are many other variables besides the hardness itself... take a wild caught 10+ inch loach and drop it in tank of liquid rock, it will not survive long. take a 1/2 loach and put it in the same water ,he will have a better chance of surviving. take a captive bred fish, say for argues sake F3+, thats been bred ,raised, bred, raised, ect ,, then yes i can see it thriving.. but just to say either one way or the other is just not possible you cant there are too many things that factor in

 

[TxDemb4theoilOligarchs]

i think that your over all statement is just too broad... there are many other variables besides the hardness itself... take a wild caught 10+ inch loach and drop it in tank of liquid rock, it will not survive long. take a 1/2 loach and put it in the same water ,he will have a better chance of surviving. take a captive bred fish, say for argues sake F3+, thats been bred ,raised, bred, raised, ect ,, then yes i can see it thriving.. but just to say either one way or the other is just not possible you cant there are too many things that factor in

Yes but if we're being realistic and not talking about the 0.1-0.2% of fish keepers who have wild caught fish, 99.99% of people who keep fish have F3/F4/F5+ raised fish and will never have wild caught. Those fish can survive in hard water because otherwise they literally wouldn't be alive in the millions of tanks they're currently in and we know that for a fact because we have youtube and google chock full of millions of videos of giant healthy soft water clown loaches and other soft water fish in general hard water or even more.

It is a broad statement but the reality of fishkeeping is one of hard to moderately hard water for most US/UK fish keepers and we know that is a fact based off water hardness maps, limestone in tanks, substrate use and the pure raw fact that US and UK water is majority hard water regions.

This is why the African Cichlid trade has exploded because most US/UK water is hard to moderately hard and those fish are literally able to be thrown into tanks with hard water and they'll breed.

 

[dan518]

How old are the thousands of fish you see on YouTube? Even on this site you don't see many fish dying of old age, in this hobby the % of fish that live out there full lives is sadly very low.