My sump/plumbing is too loud

[DN328]

I don't know what to say FedEx, as much as I like DC pumps, that has nothing to do with what contributed to most of your noise with water draining to the sump.

As I've, and some others called out, you need to reduce the flow of the actual drains via a valve, ideally gate-valve. I'm certain that is your issue. The overflow intake was quiet, your return pump is now quieter with the DC, but you've not controlled the WATER FLOW FROM THE DRAINS to the sump. This is not the same as the return out if the return pump.

I'd humbly suggest you review what was advised. The drain to the sump is exactly what occurs on mine IF I open up my gate-valve.

 

[FedEXguy]

I know you and others have suggested the gate valve on the drain. It is my last ditch option and I haven't got there yet. There are many setups that I see on Youtube that do not have a valve on the drain and they have ended up with a quieter sump than I have. So I have to assume it's possible and that I'm missing something. To me, and maybe someone can explain how I am wrong, if I put a valve on my drain and close it down, then I no longer have a 1.5" drain. I have a drain whatever the gate valve opening is. What if I have to crank it down pretty far before things are silent? Then it might be a small enough opening that it could get clogged. On a one-drain system that would mean that my return would overflow my main tank. Right?

Anyway, it's an option, but I don't have peace of mind thinking about it.

 

[DN328]

You're correct FedExguy about reducing the drain pipe sizes. I think that's why the reefer hobbyists came up with draining methods, most known being Herbie and Bean Animal, IMO.
There was a need for maximizing turnover for a given drain size, decrease the risks with some redundancy/back up drains, while running as quiet as possible.

In your situation, you have two drains running at full siphon and technically no back-up drain (if I recall). Adding a strainer to your drain pipes could help reduce the risk of potential block, although I've not added one to a durso drain, but I have that on my standpipe. Even with your current drain, they could get blocked as well creating overflow - so that problem exists for you now, just the risk may be lower as you have larger diameter at the moment.

I've not seen any drains that run full siphon where the water output (to the sump) has been reasonable quiet without a valve to balance. I'm not suggesting it cannot be done, but I'd like to see where others have achieved this. Pointers to videos if you have available?

 

[ragin_cajun]

you don't have 1 drain. You have 2--a single 1.5 inch drain in each overflow, right? so you need to calculate the output of the pumps. then you calculate the rate that a single 1.5 inch drain can drain. If a 1.5 inch pipe can drain the output of your pump, then you have a single drain with a gate on it, and then a second 1.5 inch drain acting as a "backup" or "emergency" drain. It's mostly dry, maybe a trickle, and a little higher in the overflow than the main siphon drain.

Another poster further up said this already.

look at this thread, post number 4-10. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/sump-help.675946/#post-7594900

 

[ragin_cajun]

OP --

Have you put the needle valve air adjustment on your durso's yet?

 

[DN328]

Forgot to add, I would reduce the output flow to the sump and see if that really makes a difference to your water parameters and appearance - wouldn't really hurt. With it nearly being silent, you may be able to live with it not being wide open ;-)

 

[Woefulrelic]

Is one of your drains working harder than the other? I've had a similar issue with my durso set up, I think this occurs when the tank/standpipes are unlevel. The drain with more flow would begin to protein skim or something to that effect, creating the loud noise and bubbles when medicine used. My dursos are in the overflows though, as opposed to below the tank. You might be able to dial one drain back with a gate valve, but limiting drains on a durso feels like a bad idea to me. I realized now that you have double durso action, not sure if this is creating too much air but I'm hardly an expert.

 

[FedEXguy]

I've not seen any drains that run full siphon where the water output (to the sump) has been reasonable quiet without a valve to balance. I'm not suggesting it cannot be done, but I'd like to see where others have achieved this. Pointers to videos if you have available?

I don't have any available offhand but if you youtube search things like "quiet sump aquarium" "aquarium sump noise" "aquarium plumbing silencing" etc, you should see a few. I'm wondering if part of the problem is the need to introduce air into the Durso so that it doesn't flush. That has to be where the majority of the bubbles are coming from.

If a 1.5 inch pipe can drain the output of your pump, then you have a single drain with a gate on it, and then a second 1.5 inch drain acting as a "backup" or "emergency" drain. It's mostly dry, maybe a trickle, and a little higher in the overflow than the main siphon drain.
look at this thread, post number 4-10. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/sump-help.675946/#post-7594900
Have you put the needle valve air adjustment on your durso's yet?

I have air valves on my dursos. One is higher than the other but they both still take water at the lowest pump setting with the ball valves nearly closed. I may need to work on their heights and lower both overall. There was just a lot of trickling noise when they were lower before. That linked post was a great write up, btw, so thanks for that.

Forgot to add, I would reduce the output flow to the sump and see if that really makes a difference to your water parameters and appearance - wouldn't really hurt. With it nearly being silent, you may be able to live with it not being wide open ;-)

I've throttled the pumps all the way back, unfortunately, and the sump noise was only barely quieter and IMO the pumps were not pumping enough to sustain the tank once my fish are full size.

Is one of your drains working harder than the other? I've had a similar issue with my durso set up, I think this occurs when the tank/standpipes are unlevel. The drain with more flow would begin to protein skim or something to that effect, creating the loud noise and bubbles when medicine used. My dursos are in the overflows though, as opposed to below the tank. You might be able to dial one drain back with a gate valve, but limiting drains on a durso feels like a bad idea to me. I realized now that you have double durso action, not sure if this is creating too much air but I'm hardly an expert.

Yes, my tank is slightly out of level from one side to another and I was unable to remedy it to perfection so one overflow takes slightly more water. I think I am getting too much air, too, but I had to have it at this level to silence the dursos.


I am wondering if there is just too much air involved in my overflow to create the laminar flow needed for silence. I may need to start over on that aspect and try tuning again, though I couldn't get it to work without flushing before. On the other hand I had nearly twice the flow of water going through with the old pumps.
Has anyone tried making a "u-turn" at the end of their drain line? I'll draw what I'm thinking and post back in a minute.

 

[FedEXguy]

I'd like to add that it isn't the bubbles themselves that are the problem. They don't make it across the sump to be returned by the pump. It's the turbidity and noise that goes with them that I am trying to alleviate.

 

[DN328]

I've throttled the pumps all the way back, unfortunately, and the sump noise was only barely quieter and IMO the pumps were not pumping enough to sustain the tank once my fish are full size.

I wasn't suggesting to turn down your return pump. I meant try to reduce the flow via the drain pipe with the valve. From the video, it looks like you already have ball-valves installed, correct? Just try it and you see how much quieter it is.

I've had my share of watching youtube videos . All implementations of Herbie or BeanAnimal involve a valve to really achieve laminar. Even BeanAnimal uses a Durso and has a valve on the main drain.

If I was in your shoes, I'd have one primary with the full siphon, and the second as back up. I realize they are in two different overflows, but it's still doable. This, of course, requires you to close off the primary drain with a valve.