I just think that fish in bigger tanks with more space act more naturally and look as well as grow better.
Lets talk about a hot topic "Appropriate tank size for ____"
- Thread starter philipraposo1982
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Few months ago I upgraded my 180 gal, while in the process I had to keep my male 13 inch Paratheraps bifasciatus in a 35 gal, in that tank he was stressed, jumpy, not able to move or turn easily which I think caused him to feel very vulnerable. Now in the new tank though it's only 4 inches longer and 4 inches wider then the 180 he can turn at full speed with out crashing as much and certainly seems even more confident.
Hello; Yes I agree that bigger is better. I do not think this is in dispute. My guess being that most of us would have the biggest tanks possible "IF" all our wishes could be granted.
As the saying goes - Some days everything goes real good, then there's most of the time".
My life has had a lot of most of the time. There are many things that keep us from having dream tanks, yet I plan to have some tanks for as long as I can. That often means I have tanks that are a compromise.
Right now I keep my tanks on a wood floor over a basement. That means somewhat smaller tanks to keep the overall weight down. I am keeping the smaller species for many of the reasons cited in this thread.
I do have the option of having large tank(s) in my basement if that becomes a desire. Even then I do not plan to overcrowd.
That we each get to run our tanks any way we wish (so far) is the way I prefer. I do not want anyone being able to dictate to me. (I know this has been a bone of contention in other threads so please do not derail this thread down that path. Start your own thread and call me names there.) That said my guess is most of the time my tanks are well into the low density stocking side of things. That I do not want to be dictated to does not mean I plan to be "cruel" to my fish.
It seems to me that fish can be kept at a healthy state in tanks not ideally suited for their size. Sometimes we are doing the best we can. I took in a common pleco a few years ago. It was my taking the pleco or the fish was to be put down. I kept it until it got over 14inches and needed a bigger tank which was not going to happen any time soon. I did find a fish shop to take it (for free). I can imagine what might have been said about me if some of you had seen that fish in my tank. The fish was well fed and had good water and Ihope it went to a home in a 50,000 gallon tank somewhere.
I hear what your saying,and I think there are circumstances like these where a less than ideal tank can be better than what the fish was previously used too.
I think more often than not,people have no self control, (or just don't care) and choose fish that will outgrow their tank size regardless of information they receive to the contrary.
This is what bugs me the most,especially when there are so many suitably sized fish available.
I think more often than not,people have no self control, (or just don't care) and choose fish that will outgrow their tank size regardless of information they receive to the contrary.
This is what bugs me the most,especially when there are so many suitably sized fish available.
hello; No argument with these statements. I acknowledge there are a lot of fish keepers who do it poorly. I have seen too, too much of it. Got to the point I no longer encourage others to start in the hobby. Too many times it is a whim that gets dropped after a few weeks or months when all the fish are dead.
A lot of it also has to do with education. The everyday person looking to get fish is typically a child and is simply excited to get a fish. The big box stores and even most local fish stores that I've been to couldn't care less what size tank I had as long as I bought something. When I do hear someone ask questions, they are often given very curt, semi-correct answers by employees that may or may not know what they are talking about, that kind of answers the question, but not really. Again, money is the bottom line, and to make money product has to be continuously moved.
I agree with most in this thread. We cannot even come close to replicating the volume of water that is available for most fish, but we can make it as close as possible as we can. After all, we (most of us) don't let our dogs live in the woods in packs. Rather, we give them food and turn most of them into lazy housepets, almost like we do with fish.
I agree with most in this thread. We cannot even come close to replicating the volume of water that is available for most fish, but we can make it as close as possible as we can. After all, we (most of us) don't let our dogs live in the woods in packs. Rather, we give them food and turn most of them into lazy housepets, almost like we do with fish.
Some people may keep fish poorly but once again by whose standard. I live in the country and could not stand to live in the city. To me the city is a crowded place that drives people nuts. How ever people who live in the city believe it must be boring in the country there is nothing to do. So why should we make stanards or tell others how they are keeping their fish poorly when it is really only our opinion. Now I am not saying that I am not guilty of this myself as I am. This is a good thread and the topic is one that will probably never have all of us agreeing. To me though I believe that to wild animals fear is probably the number one emotion they feel. Think of all the fry in a cichlid spawn even with mom and dads protection fear is still their number one feeling. The fear most animals feel is the fear of becoming another creatures lunch.
I do not believe that captive bred fish have any idea what the wild was like that is Finding Nemo crap. How ever those fish do fear larger fish that might eat them.
As for over crowding we have a 4ft 150g. tank that is probably over crowded but the fish seldom fight. In fact it is an active tank but very peaceful. Most of the fish in this tank are cichlids of varying species.
So many on hear sound like they are down on the hobby or just tired. Why because we are letting the do gooders tell us how fish should be kept. Forget about them lets encourage others to join our hobby. When we start out we have fun lets give others that feeling and the fun we first had will come back to us.
I do not believe that captive bred fish have any idea what the wild was like that is Finding Nemo crap. How ever those fish do fear larger fish that might eat them.
As for over crowding we have a 4ft 150g. tank that is probably over crowded but the fish seldom fight. In fact it is an active tank but very peaceful. Most of the fish in this tank are cichlids of varying species.
So many on hear sound like they are down on the hobby or just tired. Why because we are letting the do gooders tell us how fish should be kept. Forget about them lets encourage others to join our hobby. When we start out we have fun lets give others that feeling and the fun we first had will come back to us.
When I was 12, I wanted a Jardini, a clown knife and a bichir more than anything. The guy at the lfs would not sell any of these 3 fish to me because all i had was a 55. I hated him. I earned the money for those fish (a lot of work), and I still could not get them. Later, I have kept many other fish and have somewhat matured.
Anyway, I have kept 4" gouramiis (don't know what kind, its a long time ago, no pics) in a 10 g and a 55g, with no difference in behavior. Each one picks a plant and guards it. End of story. However, I am sure my <2" juvenile Praecox would love a bigger tank, especially a round one. Their 4' 55g is not really big enough, as soon as they start to swim, they have to turn around.
I feel it goes by the fish. If it is behaving the way it should in your tank, it is big enough. Anyone who has an understocked tank is wasting its potential. yeah, I want my fish to be happy, but I keep them for me, not them. In aquaponics, the stocking density can reach 5lb/gal with healthy, spawning fish. Yeah, they have awesome filtration - you can get the same. No, I would never keep a display tank like that, but I am planning an aquaponic system, and yes I intend to go with incredibly high stocking density. As long as the fish can swim naturally and are not territorial or aggressive, they may actually like the security excessive numbers of tankmates give them. Look at any shoaling/schooling fish in the wild. A whole river to swim in and they cluster together, bodies almost touching.
Yes, I wish I could keep my 14 Praecox in a 8', they'd be much happier than in my 55(yes, the same one.)
Anyway, I have kept 4" gouramiis (don't know what kind, its a long time ago, no pics) in a 10 g and a 55g, with no difference in behavior. Each one picks a plant and guards it. End of story. However, I am sure my <2" juvenile Praecox would love a bigger tank, especially a round one. Their 4' 55g is not really big enough, as soon as they start to swim, they have to turn around.
I feel it goes by the fish. If it is behaving the way it should in your tank, it is big enough. Anyone who has an understocked tank is wasting its potential. yeah, I want my fish to be happy, but I keep them for me, not them. In aquaponics, the stocking density can reach 5lb/gal with healthy, spawning fish. Yeah, they have awesome filtration - you can get the same. No, I would never keep a display tank like that, but I am planning an aquaponic system, and yes I intend to go with incredibly high stocking density. As long as the fish can swim naturally and are not territorial or aggressive, they may actually like the security excessive numbers of tankmates give them. Look at any shoaling/schooling fish in the wild. A whole river to swim in and they cluster together, bodies almost touching.
I saw a marked difference in behavior when I moved my silver dollars out of my 90 gal quarantine tank where they were tweaky spaz cases and into the 450 where they are totally chill.
I think this is true of many species.
I remember recently some posted a link to a paper on fish behaviour. The article was basically saying that fish that have been raised in tanks with a detailed and natural aquascape were healthier than ones in sparsely decorated bare tanks.
Without stimulation some fish suffer for it.
I think this is especially true for intelligent fish like cichlids.
A small tank will only have a minimal amount of room for such decor,providing the fish very little to explore.
A larger area can have lots of decor,defining different area and zones that the fish can explore and swim round.
These types of stimulation have proven to be more beneficial to fish health and it's not surprising.
I have seen lots of oscars moping about in a bare 75 looking pitiful and bored out its brain.
Put one in a big tank with rocks and roots to explore and you have a different animal altogether.
I remember recently some posted a link to a paper on fish behaviour. The article was basically saying that fish that have been raised in tanks with a detailed and natural aquascape were healthier than ones in sparsely decorated bare tanks.
Without stimulation some fish suffer for it.
I think this is especially true for intelligent fish like cichlids.
A small tank will only have a minimal amount of room for such decor,providing the fish very little to explore.
A larger area can have lots of decor,defining different area and zones that the fish can explore and swim round.
These types of stimulation have proven to be more beneficial to fish health and it's not surprising.
I have seen lots of oscars moping about in a bare 75 looking pitiful and bored out its brain.
Put one in a big tank with rocks and roots to explore and you have a different animal altogether.
