Effects of feeding too much on tank water quality

[Coryloach]

In short, the type of food and amount of food can and does determine the micro fauna diversity in the tank. Unprocessed food =more pathogens,
high protein food = more pathogens, more decomposition = low oxygen, more pathogens.

I won't even mention the effect on bio-load when you overfeed. But underfeeding is also not a solution as it leads to malnutrition.

In biofloc systems they use certain food types, mainly low in protein and high in carbs as an indirect pathogenic bacteria inhibitor via the establishment of friendly heterotrophic oxygen water column decomposition. Those bacteria rely on carbs, literally, as in sugar carbs and they out compete the pathogenic bacteria if maintained correctly. In those systems they provide high constant flow to keep the solids suspended in the water to prevent anaerobic decomposition.

Either way, food is going to get processed one way or another, whether first broken down by fish, then by bacteria or direct bacterial decomposition. In nature, there is a chain of events, fish eat fish, food going through fish, then shredders such as shrimp and snails, then smaller shredders, then bacteria decomposition, both aerobic and anaerobic. The longer the chain, the better.

In general, the more natural the tank setup, including having plants which create conditions for non-pathogenic microbial diversity, and also diversity of other critters as shredders, be it worms, shrimp, snails, etc.. the more robust the tank conditions are for the fish.

In a bare bottom tanks with large fish fed high protein food that won't be exactly the case so take out that siphon...A filter only, bare bottom tank is the least stable tank setup and prone to issues.

 

[Mizukage]

frequent pooping...


that's what I have been doing.
I also remove any uneaten food.

remove uneaten food

 

[PYRU]

In short, the type of food and amount of food can and does determine the micro fauna diversity in the tank. Unprocessed food =more pathogens,
high protein food = more pathogens, more decomposition = low oxygen, more pathogens.

I won't even mention the effect on bio-load when you overfeed. But underfeeding is also not a solution as it leads to malnutrition.

In biofloc systems they use certain food types, mainly low in protein and high in carbs as an indirect pathogenic bacteria inhibitor via the establishment of friendly heterotrophic oxygen water column decomposition. Those bacteria rely on carbs, literally, as in sugar carbs and they out compete the pathogenic bacteria if maintained correctly. In those systems they provide high constant flow to keep the solids suspended in the water to prevent anaerobic decomposition.

Either way, food is going to get processed one way or another, whether first broken down by fish, then by bacteria or direct bacterial decomposition. In nature, there is a chain of events, fish eat fish, food going through fish, then shredders such as shrimp and snails, then smaller shredders, then bacteria decomposition, both aerobic and anaerobic. The longer the chain, the better.

In general, the more natural the tank setup, including having plants which create conditions for non-pathogenic microbial diversity, and also diversity of other critters as shredders, be it worms, shrimp, snails, etc.. the more robust the tank conditions are for the fish.

In a bare bottom tanks with large fish fed high protein food that won't be exactly the case so take out that siphon...A filter only, bare bottom tank is the least stable tank setup and prone to issues.

I think you pull this stuff from out of your rear end but we're all entitled to our opinions

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Interesting replies so far. Let me be more clear in one aspect. I sometimes get the impression from reading threads some feel if fish swallow all foods then it does not matter how much they are fed. Example - someone may say they feed several times a day but their fish eat every bit of the food.
Note as OP my intention was to have a discussion about food actually eaten and not so much the bits that may get scattered by messy eaters. However as these threads go off in various directions all is good. I do think cleaning up uneaten food is wise.

I am also not thinking of starvation diets for fish in any sense of being undernourished. I suppose more in the line that even if all is eaten the extra food thru metabolism has an impact on water quality.
We all pretty much likely agree that uneaten food is an issue but is the eaten food also a potential issue?

I guess if a goal is to grow out the biggest specimen possible the extra feeding makes sense. I do however see some indication folks see no harm at all if all food is swallowed. I think to some degree there is a level of feed that promotes decent growth and health but wonder if extra food is a real benefit.

Carry on folks. Also too bad Hendre went over to the other side. He use to participate all the time.

 

[FINWIN]

I think you pull this stuff from out of your rear end but we're all entitled to our opinions

LOL

 

[FINWIN]

Hello; Interesting replies so far. Let me be more clear in one aspect. I sometimes get the impression from reading threads some feel if fish swallow all foods then it does not matter how much they are fed. Example - someone may say they feed several times a day but their fish eat every bit of the food.
Note as OP my intention was to have a discussion about food actually eaten and not so much the bits that may get scattered by messy eaters. However as these threads go off in various directions all is good. I do think cleaning up uneaten food is wise.

I am also not thinking of starvation diets for fish in any sense of being undernourished. I suppose more in the line that even if all is eaten the extra food thru metabolism has an impact on water quality.
We all pretty much likely agree that uneaten food is an issue but is the eaten food also a potential issue?

I guess if a goal is to grow out the biggest specimen possible the extra feeding makes sense. I do however see some indication folks see no harm at all if all food is swallowed. I think to some degree there is a level of feed that promotes decent growth and health but wonder if extra food is a real benefit.

Carry on folks. Also too bad Hendre went over to the other side. He use to participate all the time.

I have noticed that some fish seem to process the same pellets differently through their bodies, affecting what may go in the water column. My O will have big piles of poop but its soft and easy to break unless I scoop it up carefully. The blood parrot and severum tend to have firmer stuff thats much easier to sweep and clean. Not sure what the difference is there, but I try to avoid foods that cloud up or break apart easily.

 

[Coryloach]

I think you pull this stuff from out of your rear end but we're all entitled to our opinions

We'll talk in 20 years, when you wise up, if you ever do.

 

[esoxlucius]

Whether it's uneaten food rotting in a corner, through over feeding, or eaten food coming out of the fish as poop, which one is more damaging, who knows, seems like the lesser of two evils to me. We know what happens to the water quality as a result of either one, or both. And our superhero water changes save the day, for a short period anyway, until we have to do it all again.

A point i'd like to make about feeding. When people go on vacation and they say they haven't fed their fish for the whole duration, no automatic feeders or neighbours popping in. How many of those people make a thread about how they didn't feed their fish for a week, 10 days, a fortnight, whatever it is, and say they went on holiday, came back and all the fish were dead. They looked really skinny, they must have starved to death? I've never seen any threads regarding this.

Threads about how people went on holiday and came back to all their fish being fine? Plenty of threads on this. This tells me hell of a lot. Fish simply don't need as much food as we think they need. Yes, they beg, and we unfortunately deliver. Most of us feed once per day and maybe miss a day or two, as I do. What's to say that our fish won't be fine if we only fed twice a week, or once a week?

Water quality certainly wouldn't go downhill as fast.

 

[islandguy11]

Hello; Interesting replies so far. Let me be more clear in one aspect. I sometimes get the impression from reading threads some feel if fish swallow all foods then it does not matter how much they are fed. Example - someone may say they feed several times a day but their fish eat every bit of the food.
Note as OP my intention was to have a discussion about food actually eaten and not so much the bits that may get scattered by messy eaters. However as these threads go off in various directions all is good. I do think cleaning up uneaten food is wise.

I am also not thinking of starvation diets for fish in any sense of being undernourished. I suppose more in the line that even if all is eaten the extra food thru metabolism has an impact on water quality.
We all pretty much likely agree that uneaten food is an issue but is the eaten food also a potential issue?

I guess if a goal is to grow out the biggest specimen possible the extra feeding makes sense. I do however see some indication folks see no harm at all if all food is swallowed. I think to some degree there is a level of feed that promotes decent growth and health but wonder if extra food is a real benefit.

Carry on folks. Also too bad Hendre went over to the other side. He use to participate all the time.

Very good points you've been making and I've been thinking about these as well recently -- I keep my bare bottom tanks very cleanly (perhaps overly), twice a day siphoning out any waste or small bits of food that might have escaped their jaws, so that isn't really a big issue for me (or my filters) -- but I am concerned that I'm overfeeding my 2 Arowana (as well as a young Datnoid), they seem to be getting kind of fat and I know that simply can't be healthy so am now in the process of reducing their caloric intake.

 

[jaws7777]

A point i'd like to make about feeding. When people go on vacation and they say they haven't fed their fish for the whole duration, no automatic feeders or neighbours popping in. How many of those people make a thread about how they didn't feed their fish for a week, 10 days, a fortnight, whatever it is, and say they went on holiday, came back and all the fish were dead. They looked really skinny, they must have starved to death? I've never seen any threads regarding this.

Threads about how people went on holiday and came back to all their fish being fine? Plenty of threads on this. This tells me hell of a lot. Fish simply don't need as much food as we think they need. Yes, they beg, and we unfortunately deliver. Most of us feed once per day and maybe miss a day or two, as I do. What's to say that our fish won't be fine if we only fed twice a week, or once a week?

Water quality certainly wouldn't go downhill as fast.

Especially with carnivorous fish. I'll feed the herbivores small meals daily but the meat eaters will only get fed a few times a week.

Soo many threads devoted to ingredients and food fights but not enough discussion on the amount of food we feed.