Keyhole Cichlid aggression

[Ravynn]

I had my 4 Keyholes in QT for almost 3 weeks and I believe a pair was formed as breeding tubes dropped (they were also the only 2 that showed no aggression towards eachother) and they tried to clear out an area and lay eggs but either they didn't or the eggs were eaten. I am assuming the other 2 are male and female but not a pair. There has been relentless chasing across the tank/running into the glass, fin nipping, shimmying, gill flaring and digging sand pits.

They were moved into the 40g yesterday and the same behavior is happening. One second all 4 of them will be sifting the sand together or swimming up and down the glass together then all of a sudden everyone is being chased. One of the ones not in a pair; I call him the "rogue male" has a new split down his tail fin from the chasing today.. I also think it's mainly the dominant male in the pair that is doing the chasing.

Is this them establishing a pecking order and it will slowly die down or do I need to remove/get rid of 1 or 2 Keyholes? (which I really don't want to do)

Any insight would be appreciated, didn't expect this aggression with them being peaceful cichlids

 

[NW Cichlid Keith]

I’ve had similar issues. When I had 6 in a 29, they all got along. I sold 3 and put the remaining 3 in a 135 (ended up being 2 males and a female). Even though the 135 was heavily planted and stocked with other fish, one male was relentless - would chase the other back and forth across the whole 135. I have never seen them bother another species of fish though.

 

[NW Cichlid Keith]

Oh, and I’m not cruel - the other male was removed and sold.

 

[Ravynn]

I’ve had similar issues. When I had 6 in a 29, they all got along. I sold 3 and put the remaining 3 in a 135 (ended up being 2 males and a female). Even though the 135 was heavily planted and stocked with other fish, one male was relentless - would chase the other back and forth across the whole 135. I have never seen them bother another species of fish though.

I've never owned cichlids other than these before so I did a lot of research to make sure I was doing things right. Seems as though I got the short end of the stick with this group though. In your opinion, what do you think I should do? Wait it out or remove one (male in the pair, male not in the pair)?

 

[neutrino]

At this point I'd remove the unpaired individuals, maybe get different shape and size fish if you want more than a breeding tank just for the pair. It's possible if they're new in the tank they could settle down into separate territories, but doesn't seem likely from what you describe. It's possible you could divide the tank with a clear divider and accomplish something similar in time-- getting them to settle into their own territories, and I might try it if I had just the one tank and wanted badly to keep them all, but I'd consider that a bit of a long shot.

The thing with many cichlid species, including those considered peaceful, is individuals differ in temperament. Also, peaceful or aggressive is relative, depends on things like tankmates, tank size, breeding, etc. A peaceful cichlid in one tank might try to dominate in another tank-- or vice versa. A peaceful cichlid non-breeding can get really feisty breeding, then what happens can depend on what else is in the tank. Tankmates of same species, or similar body type vs. different body type or a good bit larger-- or tank size, aquascape, and individual fish can all affect outcome.

Also, 4 is actually a low number in most cases for a species tank, it can be too few to see the social behavior you might see with 6 or more. Even 6 is on the low side and social behavior may improve with more than 6-- that's true even with discus. But, again, individual temperament varies among many cichlid species (some more than others), so what works can vary also.

 

[Ravynn]

At this point I'd remove the unpaired individuals, maybe get different shape and size fish if you want more than a breeding tank just for the pair. It's possible if they're new in the tank they could settle down into separate territories, but doesn't seem likely from what you describe. It's possible you could divide the tank with a clear divider and accomplish something similar in time-- getting them to settle into their own territories, and I might try it if I had just the one tank and wanted badly to keep them all, but I'd consider that a bit of a long shot.

The thing with many cichlid species, including those considered peaceful, is individuals differ in temperament. Also, peaceful or aggressive is relative, depends on things like tankmates, tank size, breeding, etc. A peaceful cichlid in one tank might try to dominate in another tank-- or vice versa. A peaceful cichlid non-breeding can get really feisty breeding, then what happens can depend on what else is in the tank. Tankmates of same species, or similar body type vs. different body type or a good bit larger-- or tank size, aquascape, and individual fish can all affect outcome.

Also, 4 is actually a low number in most cases for a species tank, it can be too few to see the social behavior you might see with 6 or more. Even 6 is on the low side and social behavior can improve with more than 6-- true even with discus. But, again, individual temperament varies among many cichlid species (some more than others), so what works can vary also.

I was going for a south american community tank with tetras and corydoras rather than a species tank but I had to order the keyholes first from another city since my lfs doesn't get them on a regular basis. I only just added them to the 40g yesterday but they are exibiting the exact same behavior as in qt.

Would I be better off keeping the pair in a community or the two unpaired?

Pic of my 40g:

 

[neutrino]

My reasoning is the pair have apparently already worked it out that they like each other. The other two you don't know how they might react, whether the presumed male now being chased will in turn become aggressive without the other male around, which is not desinted to happen but also not unusual. Or-- the unpaired individuals, if male and female, could decide to pair up if they find themselves not being chased around.

 

[Ravynn]

My reasoning is the pair have apparently already worked it out that they like each other. The other two you don't know how they might react, whether the presumed male now being chased will in turn become aggressive without the other male around, which is not unusual. Or-- the unpaired individuals, if male and female, could decide to pair up if they find themselves not being chased around.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. It's such a bummer as I wanted to have a little group of them but as soon as I saw breeding behavior in qt I had a feeling something like this was going to happen. The female in the pair is fine with the other 2 but the male is protecting her which is why the chasing is happening. Same thing happened in qt.

 

[LBDave]

My reasoning is the pair have apparently already worked it out that they like each other. The other two you don't know how they might react, whether the presumed male now being chased will in turn become aggressive without the other male around, which is not desinted to happen but also not unusual. Or-- the unpaired individuals, if male and female, could decide to pair up if they find themselves not being chased around.

If you have a pair I would get rid of or move out the others. I bred these a long time ago and the pair were great once they were a pair!
Although a relatively docile fish they can get aggressive when pairing up. And the male is not going to give up.
I actually bred them in a tank with an oscar. They did defend and the oscar was not really happy when they bred. At other times life was good!

 

[Ravynn]

If you have a pair I would get rid of or move out the others. I bred these a long time ago and the pair were great once they were a pair!
Although a relatively docile fish they can get aggressive when pairing up. And the male is not going to give up.
I actually bred them in a tank with an oscar. They did defend and the oscar was not really happy when they bred. At other times life was good!

Okay, i'll get things ready tomorrow to move them out. I can put them back in the qt but i'll have to rehome/trade to my lfs. When I moved them from qt to display tank they were thrashing around, trying to jump out of the water so I hope they don't go ballistic this time (wishful thinking). Hopefully the pair will be nice with schooling fish.