My Dicrossus foirni journey

[Pterophyllum sp]

Well...I'm home, I don't have much that needs to be done today, so I thought I 'd humor you with my story about my experience with a wonderful larger dwarf cichlid from the Brazilian Rio Negro. Dicrossus foirni (previously known as Dicrossus sp. Rio negro, and Dicrossus sp Red).

Fall of 2017, I'd decided to go full ding dong, and make a play to try and get my hands on my "holy grail" fish, direct from the exporter myself. A small group of friends were aware of what I was doing, and I soon received a text message with a photo of a little checkerboard cichlid, of which I was not familiar . The attached text was something to the effect of this is a really cool fish, its scarce in the hobby, you should add some to the import. After some inquires to folks whom I would consider to be very dwarf cichlid savvy, I decided to pass. I had no interest in wasting my money on a fish which was difficult to ship, difficult to maintain, near impossible to spawn, and prone to horribly skewed M-F ratios.... while I had exercised a rare moment of good judgement, my friend could not, and the fish were added to the list (at his expense, not mine...).

As the week of the import approached, the exporter reached out, and decided not to ship my "holy grail" fish. They were not healthy, they would probably not survive the 72 hour journey from Manaus... heartbreak... oh well...I tried....maybe next time. After a week of final setup, all the tanks were prepared, and the fish arrived after their long journey. 30 little Dicrossus went into a 30 gallon long.

Surprisingly, they shipped very well. Surprisingly, the acclimated very well. For a wild caught fish, I was amazed at how curious they were. Within a day, every fish in that tank was at the front glass watching my every move, waiting for a meal...all the time. It was truly bizarre. After a few months of food, and some prophylactic de-worming, I'd even say the QT's surprisingly well... they were all still alive! Quite improbable from what I was told to expect.

At the end of the QT period, I had a tank full of really great, really healthy fish....and none of them were mine. That rare moment of good judgement, had come back to bite me. Said friend, who made the bad decision to roll the dice on these guys was in heaven. The fish sold quickly, and for what I would imagine was probably a tidy little profit.

to be continued....

 

[DwarfCichlidLvr]

Well...I'm home, I don't have much that needs to be done today, so I thought I 'd humor you with my story about my experience with a wonderful larger dwarf cichlid from the Brazilian Rio Negro. Dicrossus foirni (previously known as Dicrossus sp. Rio negro, and Dicrossus sp Red).

Fall of 2017, I'd decided to go full ding dong, and make a play to try and get my hands on my "holy grail" fish, direct from the exporter myself. A small group of friends were aware of what I was doing, and I soon received a text message with a photo of a little checkerboard cichlid, of which I was not familiar . The attached text was something to the effect of this is a really cool fish, its scarce in the hobby, you should add some to the import. After some inquires to folks whom I would consider to be very dwarf cichlid savvy, I decided to pass. I had no interest in wasting my money on a fish which was difficult to ship, difficult to maintain, near impossible to spawn, and prone to horribly skewed M-F ratios.... while I had exercised a rare moment of good judgement, my friend could not, and the fish were added to the list (at his expense, not mine...).

As the week of the import approached, the exporter reached out, and decided not to ship my "holy grail" fish. They were not healthy, they would probably not survive the 72 hour journey from Manaus... heartbreak... oh well...I tried....maybe next time. After a week of final setup, all the tanks were prepared, and the fish arrived after their long journey. 30 little Dicrossus went into a 30 gallon long.

Surprisingly, they shipped very well. Surprisingly, the acclimated very well. For a wild caught fish, I was amazed at how curious they were. Within a day, every fish in that tank was at the front glass watching my every move, waiting for a meal...all the time. It was truly bizarre. After a few months of food, and some prophylactic de-worming, I'd even say the QT's surprisingly well... they were all still alive! Quite improbable from what I was told to expect.

At the end of the QT period, I had a tank full of really great, really healthy fish....and none of them were mine. That rare moment of good judgement, had come back to bite me. Said friend, who made the bad decision to roll the dice on these guys was in heaven. The fish sold quickly, and for what I would imagine was probably a tidy little profit.

to be continued....

Im sorry to hear this. What exported did you use? Maybe you can get some next time.

 

[Pterophyllum sp]

A number of months later, it came to my attention that a group of these fish had ended up with a very capable hobbyist a couple hours south of me. With the 6 fish he had received, he had accomplished the sometimes near impossible....he had a female. Not going to lie....at this point I'm beyond envious. The are way cool fish, and who doesn't want to take a crack at spawning a "very difficult to spawn fish".

While these fish are very gregarious and loosely shoal as sub adults, adult D. foirni, are quite territorial. The dominant male in the group slowly ended the sub dominant males, one by one, until he was left with a pair, which actually spawned in the fall of 2018. Sadly, the eggs never hatched, and there were no more attempts at spawning.

Fast forward to December 2019. I get what is quite possibly one of the best Christmas presents ever. The adult pair of of D. foirni, that have done nothing for the last year. I'm ecstatic to get a shot at them, but concerned that maybe two and a half is well past the reproductive prime of a fish that I imagine doesn't live much past a year in the wild.

 

[MatteoTheEnder22]

Tell us more

 

[Pterophyllum sp]

At this point, not only am I in possession of the adult pair, I am also in possession of Romers CA1, and CA2 which lay out a very dim outlook on the possibilities of actually getting these fish to spawn, and even harder yet, rearing the fry. Oh well, I make bad decisions, lets give it a try.

In the following weeks, I bombarded the pair with what little live food my tubs were producing in the middle of winter, in addition to frozen mysis and spirulina brine shrimp. A mix of tap water, reverse osmosis water and muriatic acid was used to get the pH and conductivity into "Rio Negro" range. At the end of 3 weeks, the female was round, and an ovipositor was visible. The next evening, the female selected a fairly well hidden location to lay her eggs behind some driftwood that was covered in oak leaves. (*pro tip....a 3' tank is no where near large enough to accommodate a brooding female, and her mate) The female was quite intolerant of the male at this point, and I feel fairly lucky to have been in the room close to spawning time. The male was removed.

On the 4th day, the female emerged from seclusion. I still had no idea what was going on, or if this had already gone in the toilet. CA paints a pretty bleak picture of wiggler mortality with this species. Later in the day, I observed the female paying quite a bit of attention to a cupped oak leaf... winner! winner!

Sitting in the cupped leaf, were a fairly healthy number of small beige wigglers.

to be continued...

 

[MatteoTheEnder22]

At this point, not only am I in possession of the adult pair, I am also in possession of Romers CA1, and CA2 which lay out a very dim outlook on the possibilities of actually getting these fish to spawn, and even harder yet, rearing the fry. Oh well, I make bad decisions, lets give it a try.

In the following weeks, I bombarded the pair with what little live food my tubs were producing in the middle of winter, in addition to frozen mysis and spirulina brine shrimp. A mix of tap water, reverse osmosis water and muriatic acid was used to get the pH and conductivity into "Rio Negro" range. At the end of 3 weeks, the female was round, and an ovipositor was visible. The next evening, the female selected a fairly well hidden location to lay her eggs behind some driftwood that was covered in oak leaves. (*pro tip....a 3' tank is no where near large enough to accommodate a brooding female, and her mate) The female was quite intolerant of the male at this point, and I feel fairly lucky to have been in the room close to spawning time. The male was removed.

On the 4th day, the female emerged from seclusion. I still had no idea what was going on, or if this had already gone in the toilet. CA paints a pretty bleak picture of wiggler mortality with this species. Later in the day, I observed the female paying quite a bit of attention to a cupped oak leaf... winner! winner!View attachment 1416871

Sitting in the cupped leaf, were a fairly healthy number of small beige wigglers.

to be continued...

Cool

 

[Pterophyllum sp]

Days 4-10 were a little sketchy.... the books say wiggler mortality is pretty high, and that newly freeswimming fry often starve to death over a lack of appropriate food. Fortunately for me, the book really wasn't all that great of a predictor of what was to come. On the 10th day, momma took her fry for their first swim. The fry weren't as small as I expected, and freshly hatched BBS was a more than adequate first food.

 

[MatteoTheEnder22]

Days 4-10 were a little sketchy.... the books say wiggler mortality is pretty high, and that newly freeswimming fry often starve to death over a lack of appropriate food. Fortunately for me, the book really wasn't all that great of a predictor of what was to come. On the 10th day, momma took her fry for their first swim. The fry weren't as small as I expected, and freshly hatched BBS was a more than adequate first food.View attachment 1416875

Wow they are tiny and also congrates on hatching them

 

[Fishnerd360]

I had a checkerboard cichlid once, was trying to grow them out since they were 1 cm long, but they died too early. Nice to see your adult ones.

 

[DwarfCichlidLvr]

A number of months later, it came to my attention that a group of these fish had ended up with a very capable hobbyist a couple hours south of me. With the 6 fish he had received, he had accomplished the sometimes near impossible....he had a female. Not going to lie....at this point I'm beyond envious. The are way cool fish, and who doesn't want to take a crack at spawning a "very difficult to spawn fish".

While these fish are very gregarious and loosely shoal as sub adults, adult D. foirni, are quite territorial. The dominant male in the group slowly ended the sub dominant males, one by one, until he was left with a pair, which actually spawned in the fall of 2018. Sadly, the eggs never hatched, and there were no more attempts at spawning.

Fast forward to December 2019. I get what is quite possibly one of the best Christmas presents ever. The adult pair of of D. foirni, that have done nothing for the last year. I'm ecstatic to get a shot at them, but concerned that maybe two and a half is well past the reproductive prime of a fish that I imagine doesn't live much past a year in the wild.View attachment 1416869View attachment 1416870

Why do you use the word 'impossible'? Are females super rare or something?

thanks for sharing.

At this point, not only am I in possession of the adult pair, I am also in possession of Romers CA1, and CA2 which lay out a very dim outlook on the possibilities of actually getting these fish to spawn, and even harder yet, rearing the fry. Oh well, I make bad decisions, lets give it a try.

In the following weeks, I bombarded the pair with what little live food my tubs were producing in the middle of winter, in addition to frozen mysis and spirulina brine shrimp. A mix of tap water, reverse osmosis water and muriatic acid was used to get the pH and conductivity into "Rio Negro" range. At the end of 3 weeks, the female was round, and an ovipositor was visible. The next evening, the female selected a fairly well hidden location to lay her eggs behind some driftwood that was covered in oak leaves. (*pro tip....a 3' tank is no where near large enough to accommodate a brooding female, and her mate) The female was quite intolerant of the male at this point, and I feel fairly lucky to have been in the room close to spawning time. The male was removed.

On the 4th day, the female emerged from seclusion. I still had no idea what was going on, or if this had already gone in the toilet. CA paints a pretty bleak picture of wiggler mortality with this species. Later in the day, I observed the female paying quite a bit of attention to a cupped oak leaf... winner! winner!View attachment 1416871

Sitting in the cupped leaf, were a fairly healthy number of small beige wigglers.

to be continued...

Congrats!

How did you get them form the guy south of you?

Days 4-10 were a little sketchy.... the books say wiggler mortality is pretty high, and that newly freeswimming fry often starve to death over a lack of appropriate food. Fortunately for me, the book really wasn't all that great of a predictor of what was to come. On the 10th day, momma took her fry for their first swim. The fry weren't as small as I expected, and freshly hatched BBS was a more than adequate first food.
View attachment 1416875

Those are nicely sized fry! So cute!

Are you still breeding them or was it a one and done sorta thing?