Is It Ethical to Keep Pets and Other Animals?

[Ulu]

OK I am going to probably step on a toe or two here.

The greatest reason for humans to have pets is that it is good for our mental health. It ain't even 50/50 for the pets, you know.
We humans are the beneficiaries.

Mental health is obviously a serious issue to anyone who has seen the news from all sides of the world.
People are doing crazy stuff. It's not because they have the sanity thing down pat. They're losing it.

A pet is the most natural thing in the world for someone to have, to make them happy, and to improve their life outlook. Every child sees this, then asks his folks for a cat or a dog (or a *gulp* pony! . . . but for me it was a cat, a mouse, and a turtle.)

I see increased pet ownership as an important mechanism for balance in living.

Some folks depend on other people for so many things. This can sometimes make them feel dependent rather than independent.

My kids are professionals in mid-life. My wife is pretty healthy. They aren't dependent on me.
But my pets will quickly perish without my constant ministrations.

Instant life purpose comes with the responsibility for a simple goldfish.
Not everybody gets this.

 

[fishhead0103666]

Ethical
-relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge dealing with these.

From the above I get “moral”.

Moral
-concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

From the above I get “principles of right and wrong” which I translated to “sense of right and wrong”

Sense of right and wrong
-motivation deriving logically from ethical or moral principles that govern a person's thoughts and actions.

From the above I get “moral principles

Moral principles
-the principles of right and wrong that are accepted by an individual or a social group

I can keep going down the rabbit hole a bit further but I’ll stop here as I’ve gathered enough.

If you look at the definitions above you’ll see that no matter what you look at you’re always talking about what someone believes. What someone believes is not a one size fits all as not everyone believes the same thing. One person may believe X is acceptable while another person may thing X is not acceptable. Ethics and morals do not have a clear cut and paste definition for everyone because everyone is different. You can have a general idea for a group of people but it will never be able to have a straight answer for *everyone*.

For the above reasons I will have to say that it is up to each individual to come up with an answer for themselves and for that reason I am refraining from giving a formal answer.

 

[Blakewater]

Another point I would like to make is that, in terms of wild animals (or fish), many have over 90%+ mortality rates before adulthood. In some cases, if you have the means to properly care for a creature and fulfill its requirements, it could be considered better than being wild due to the much higher likelihood of reaching a mature age with minimal stress.

However, my stance has always been that if you purchase an animal, you best bend over backwards to keep them content. Once you have a new family member it is no longer a choice of giving it subpar care or not. You bought the animal, it did not ask you to keep it. You made the commitment and you do not get to back out of it because you feel lazy.

 

[skjl47]

The greatest reason for humans to have pets is that it is good for our mental health. It ain't even 50/50 for the pets, you know.
We humans are the beneficiaries.

Hello; I have seen stories about how during the lockdowns for the virus that many more pets have been purchased. I follow your meaning in that this was not for the benefit of the animal but for the human. If I live I expect my life to go on as before in many ways. To those out of work I suspect that with luck they will go back to work when things clear up. If they did not have time time or inclination to have a pet before the virus, will they then have the inclination after the virus.
I probably should not tell this story as it is about my mother. As she got older I came to visit one day and she had a dog. I came back a few weeks later and the dog was gone. My guess is she got tired of coming home from work to masses to clean up. I never made a point of asking why the dog was gone.

If you look at the definitions above you’ll see that no matter what you look at you’re always talking about what someone believes.

Ethics and morals do not have a clear cut and paste definition for everyone because everyone is different.

Hello; While I am not up to dispute these points of view right now, I do think morals and ethics are not so fluid. I get that people can have different ways of looking at things but do hope morals and ethics are much more solid concepts than it just depends. I will be thinking on this.

if you have the means to properly care for a creature and fulfill its requirements, it could be considered better than being wild due to the much higher likelihood of reaching a mature age with minimal stress.

Hello; This is one of the better points. I have seen similar comments made in other threads about hobby ethics. This is so very correct if a person keeps an animal in good conditions. In the wild the animal may starve, be eaten or get some disease or parasite with no hope of recovery. A couple of things mitigate this to some extent. Perhaps the bigger being how many pet keepers do not keep good conditions. I guess I could talk about my neighbors to the north east. They are a small herd of black angus cattle. They have a nice pasture of grass to eat. A barn to go into. Fresh water to drink. Hay trucked in when the grass is not growing. Medical care included. The only one I can count on being around over the years is the big bull I call Big Mack. Maybe some of the cows get to stay around for years, but all the new male young are on short time for sure. They had a good number of males this last year. They will be kept until a point where it is no longer cost effective to keep feeding them. A point where they stop putting on meat at a good rate and more feed just makes them add weight too slowly. Of course at some point if the males stay they will become adversaries of Big Mack.

 

[Supergeorge123]

Probably not. If aliens kept humans as pets we probably wouldn't enjoy it, especially if they kept us in the conditions that most people keep their pets in.

 

[skjl47]

Ethics and morals do not have a clear cut and paste definition for everyone because everyone is different. You can have a general idea for a group of people but it will never be able to have a straight answer for *everyone*.

Hello; While I am not up to dispute these points of view right now, I do think morals and ethics are not so fluid. I get that people can have different ways of looking at things but do hope morals and ethics are much more solid concepts than it just depends. I will be thinking on this.

Hello; I have been thinking on this off and on for a few days. I had hoped to come up with examples and arguments for how morals and ethics ought to and do have some set standards. I may have a couple and hope to get to at least one later.

There is the other side and maybe this example works as a way morals and ethics can be variable. For example my culture takes a dim view of humans consuming human flesh. A taboo even in my society. Then I thought about the isolated tribes of canabals for whom this is not a taboo but rather an accepted thing to do. So am I wrong it my stance that morals and ethics ought to be narrowly defined? Maybe so but I think I have a plausible way to get to it.

The positive example I thought of was a situation such as a military academy like West Point. In that situation cadets are expected to have and live up to an honor code. I have only views from the outside so cannot say how it actually works. For a cadet to have "honor" some very specific behaviors have to be lived up to. I recall back when in the Boy Scouts of America I tried out for a sort of "honor" group called "The Order of The Arrow". The initiation took place for three days while I was attending scout camp. (No I was not molested and did not know of any such thing) We had three days of ordeals, mild ordeals to be sure, but a little daunting for a 12 year old. One of the things was to not speak ay all. I had to carry a stick and if I spoke I was to cut a notch in the stick. Too many notches and I did not make it into the group. I did not speak for over two days but did on the third day. One of the chores we had to do was cut and trim some small logs to make a lifeguard tower at the swimming area. I managed to mash the fingers real good of one of the other boys during this part. He cried out but did not speak. I was proud of him and did apologize. I then cut a notch on my stick.
Some of the scouts did not want to be in the group and I guess thought it was silly I guess. I made it into the group and was proud to be there. The rules set us apart and being in with the others seemed worth it. I still have the patch from back then. It was sewn onto the pocket of my explorer scout shirt for a long time. The shirt is gone but I have the patch.

What is my point? I guess it is that within a group the morals and ethics of that group do matter a lot. Another different group can have a unique set of morals and ethics all it's own but to be a member in good standing a person in the group cannot vary too far from the ethics of the group. Maybe this argument could be stretched out to include things such as law and order but that is not something I wish to tackle now.
I would like to be able to leave my doors unlocked since I do not steal from my neighbors. However I know for some an unlocked door is looked at as an invitation by enough folks so I have good locks.

Pretty weak comments I suppose.

 

[esoxlucius]

Hello; I have been thinking on this off and on for a few days. I had hoped to come up with examples and arguments for how morals and ethics ought to and do have some set standards. I may have a couple and hope to get to at least one later.

There is the other side and maybe this example works as a way morals and ethics can be variable. For example my culture takes a dim view of humans consuming human flesh. A taboo even in my society. Then I thought about the isolated tribes of canabals for whom this is not a taboo but rather an accepted thing to do. So am I wrong it my stance that morals and ethics ought to be narrowly defined? Maybe so but I think I have a plausible way to get to it.

The positive example I thought of was a situation such as a military academy like West Point. In that situation cadets are expected to have and live up to an honor code. I have only views from the outside so cannot say how it actually works. For a cadet to have "honor" some very specific behaviors have to be lived up to. I recall back when in the Boy Scouts of America I tried out for a sort of "honor" group called "The Order of The Arrow". The initiation took place for three days while I was attending scout camp. (No I was not molested and did not know of any such thing) We had three days of ordeals, mild ordeals to be sure, but a little daunting for a 12 year old. One of the things was to not speak ay all. I had to carry a stick and if I spoke I was to cut a notch in the stick. Too many notches and I did not make it into the group. I did not speak for over two days but did on the third day. One of the chores we had to do was cut and trim some small logs to make a lifeguard tower at the swimming area. I managed to mash the fingers real good of one of the other boys during this part. He cried out but did not speak. I was proud of him and did apologize. I then cut a notch on my stick.
Some of the scouts did not want to be in the group and I guess thought it was silly I guess. I made it into the group and was proud to be there. The rules set us apart and being in with the others seemed worth it. I still have the patch from back then. It was sewn onto the pocket of my explorer scout shirt for a long time. The shirt is gone but I have the patch.

What is my point? I guess it is that within a group the morals and ethics of that group do matter a lot. Another different group can have a unique set of morals and ethics all it's own but to be a member in good standing a person in the group cannot vary too far from the ethics of the group. Maybe this argument could be stretched out to include things such as law and order but that is not something I wish to tackle now.
I would like to be able to leave my doors unlocked since I do not steal from my neighbors. However I know for some an unlocked door is looked at as an invitation by enough folks so I have good locks.

Pretty weak comments I suppose.

If this thread is going to go down the route of comparing morals and ethics from other cultures, and what's right or wrong or what you do or don't agree with, then the thread will probably get closed pretty quick. What a kettle of fish that is to open up!


Keeping it on the pet theme it varies all over the world. A couple of examples i'll give are dogs and guinea pigs. We have a dog, we've also had guinea pigs in the past. In Vietnam they eat dogs and in some South American countries they eat guinea pigs.

Would the Vietnamese or South Americans look on us with disdain for keeping these animals as pets and not eventually eating them? Maybe. I know that the vast majority of people would look on them with disdain, but who's got it morally or ethically right?

 

[skjl47]

'I don't want these dogs to suffer': Pet surrenders becoming tragic part of pandemic

Hello; Ok I will use a pet related example per the above link. This is sad for those who have lost their jobs and such due to the lockdowns and other such similar restrictions caused in response to the pandemic. I have been wondering what would happen to the pets bought for company during the lockdowns later when folks go back to a before covid19 schedule. I had not given much thought to those who already had pets and are in a bind currently because of the pandemic which is the topic of the link.

I had already decided some years ago to not have another dog. Keeping a dog can be and was for me not a simple thing back when I had to work. I was lucky in that I had a place to live where I could have a dog. Now I am retired with few obligations to interfere but live next to one of the busiest highways in my area. I lost my last dog to a highway. Funny thing is I sometimes have dreams about that dog. In the dreams he has been gone for some unknown reason and shows up. I am always happy to see him. He is usually dirty and I get him cleaned up. But he tends to leave again. Of course when I wake up I recall finding him on the road and recall how I buried him along a river bank. I guess my point being I get how folks can feel about losing a pet. My life was complicated some when I had that dog but got even more so in the following years.

 

[esoxlucius]

'I don't want these dogs to suffer': Pet surrenders becoming tragic part of pandemic

Hello; Ok I will use a pet related example per the above link. This is sad for those who have lost their jobs and such due to the lockdowns and other such similar restrictions caused in response to the pandemic. I have been wondering what would happen to the pets bought for company during the lockdowns later when folks go back to a before covid19 schedule. I had not given much thought to those who already had pets and are in a bind currently because of the pandemic which is the topic of the link.

I had already decided some years ago to not have another dog. Keeping a dog can be and was for me not a simple thing back when I had to work. I was lucky in that I had a place to live where I could have a dog. Now I am retired with few obligations to interfere but live next to one of the busiest highways in my area. I lost my last dog to a highway. Funny thing is I sometimes have dreams about that dog. In the dreams he has been gone for some unknown reason and shows up. I am always happy to see him. He is usually dirty and I get him cleaned up. But he tends to leave again. Of course when I wake up I recall finding him on the road and recall how I buried him along a river bank. I guess my point being I get how folks can feel about losing a pet. My life was complicated some when I had that dog but got even more so in the following years.

This is very real, and very sad. There are success stories but all too often it ends up bad, for the dog. People are often short sighted when getting dogs, they fail to do their research. Then when the novelty wears off or they realise they can't cater for the animals needs, it gets abandoned.

In the uk we often see an advertising campaign leading up to Christmas. The tag line is, "a puppy is for life, not just for christmas". There is a glaring error there, and one that the advertisers need to address imo. That is, a puppy ISN'T for life. The cute little adorable puppy given to little Johnny on Christmas morning, within a few months, will be a not so cute and adorable adult dog!! Is little Johnny still interested? Do mum and dad want to walk the dog several times a day, or do they forever want to be picking dog crap up in their back yard, or worm, deflea, groom etc etc....when they have busy work/family commitments?

It all adds up to a sad ending for the poor dog.

 

[FuriousFish]

I think that doing extensive research before deciding on a species of pet is key. Continuing to do research on the animal while keeping it is also important, there are many animals that we simply do not know enough about in captivity to provide them with optimal care yet. This is apparent in a lot of reptile and fish species, Just 20-30 years ago pretty much every reptile was wild-caught, we did not know about UVB or heat or anything. People still can't seem to figure out exactly what causes pyramiding in tortoises for example. Fishkeeping seems to have changed a lot too. I believe our understanding of animals in captivity is still in its infancy and 30 years from now we will all laugh at how we are keeping them today. With that being said, if you follow the most up to date care and especially if you are going to contribute to furthering research or even captive breeding of primarily wild-caught species, I see no problem with the ethics of keeping animals.