How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?

[dogofwar]

So the faculty of Stanford University - i.e. Scott Atlas's peers ... not the media - condemned his actions with regard to COVID in the strongest terms for "promot<ing> a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science."

Here's the report from Stanford:

Faculty Senate condemns COVID-19 actions of Hoover’s Scott Atlas

Faculty Senate condemns COVID-19 actions of Hoover’s Scott Atlas

In its last meeting of the autumn quarter, the Stanford Faculty Senate condemned the COVID-19-related actions of Hoover senior fellow and presidential adviser Scott Atlas. The Faculty Senate also approved a new policy on Open Access to make scholarly works more widely available.

news.stanford.edu

In its last meeting of the autumn quarter, the Stanford Faculty Senate condemned the COVID-19-related actions of Hoover senior fellow and presidential adviser Scott Atlas. The Faculty Senate also approved a new policy on Open Access to make scholarly works more widely available.

BY KATE CHESLEY

The Stanford Faculty Senate on Thursday condemned the COVID-19-related actions of Scott Atlas, a Hoover Institution senior fellow serving as a special assistant to President Donald Trump for coronavirus issues.

At its Nov. 19 meeting, the Faculty Senate condemned the COVID-19-related actions of Scott Atlas and heard a presentation on open access. (Image credit: Andrew Brodhead)

A resolution, introduced by members of the Faculty Senate Steering Committee and approved by 85 percent of the senate membership, specified six actions that Atlas has taken that “promote a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science.”

Among the actions cited are: discouraging the use of masks and other protective measures, misrepresenting knowledge and opinion regarding the management of pandemics, endangering citizens and public officials, showing disdain for established medical knowledge and damaging Stanford’s reputation and academic standing. The resolution states that Atlas’ behavior is “anathema to our community, our values and our belief that we should use knowledge for good.”

The resolution singles out for criticism Atlas’ recent Twitter call to the people of Michigan to “rise up” against new public health measures introduced by Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to curb disease spread.

“As elected representatives of the Stanford faculty, we strongly condemn his behavior,” the resolution states. “It violates the core values of our faculty and the expectations under the Stanford Code of Conduct, which states that we all ‘are responsible for sustaining the high ethical standards of this institution.’”

In approving the resolution, members of the senate called on university leadership to “forcefully disavow Atlas’ actions as objectionable on the basis of the university’s core values and at odds with our own policies and guidelines concerning COVID-19 and campus life.”

In discussion, David Spiegel, the Jack, Samuel and Lulu Willson Professor in Medicine, who has been among Atlas’ most vocal critics, reiterated his belief that the university has an obligation to act because Atlas has inappropriately used his position at the Hoover Institution to give credibility to his COVID-19 positions.

“What Atlas has done is an embarrassment to the university,” Spiegel said. “He is using his real affiliation with Hoover to provide credibility in issues he has no professional expertise to discuss in a professional way.”

Beware language and the art of manipulation (msn.com)

“As The Federalist explained in a 2015 report on manipulating voters, "When polls show a majority of folks favor a policy or candidate, it marginalizes those who disagree with the poll, peer-pressuring them into conformity by making them think their opinions are unpopular, invalid, or irrelevant."”

“Injecting scientific consensus into an argument shuts down debate.”

“Wildfires in California are attributed to global climate change even though there were considerably less fires in western Canada during the same period of time. Both extreme hot and cold are considered to be effects of global warming”

“Another example is the science of the COVID-19 pandemic, where two men of science espoused divergent views: Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Dr. Scott Atlas, the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow in health care policy at the Hoover Institution, who was a special adviser on the virus to former President Trump. Some in the media labeled Fauci "America's Voice of Reason in 2020." He advocated for closing the economy and schools. Dr. Atlas was branded as a "controversial former Trump adviser." His views were more in line with the Great Barrington Declaration recommending "focused protection" of those most vulnerable, such as seniors and those with pre-existing conditions.”

“Legacy media largely reported the science-according-to-Fauci, dismissing any science that challenged the mantle of consensus he claimed. Many media outlets also failed to report inconsistencies in Fauci's positions over time.”

Hello; (my comments) The above link is the first I came across so far. I was not doing a search it was among the stuff which shows up when I log on to the web. I pulled a few quotes to give an idea of the contents. I suggest any who want to be sure of the context read the article for themselves. I will refrain from too many comments. I suppose the last quotes are the more relevant to the thread discussion.

I will find more specific information in time to answer your challenge.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; I note that dogofwar picked one thing from my post link, Dr. Atlas. I do hope any who are interested did read the link for yourself to get the context. That part was less about Dr. Atlas himself, but rather more about how the media portrayed the two scientists. Check for yourself.

I decided to find some more information. So looked up the Great Barrington Declaration. While searching I found the following article. here is the link.

Great Barrington Declaration Scientists with Gov. DeSantis in Florida – AIER


The article is about a meeting with Florida govenor DeSantis which happened not long ago. Dr. Atlas in part of a panel. His comments are included in the text. I suggest you read his comments for your self. In particular about the lockdowns.

Note- Here is an interesting thing I learned in a different discussion. Florida dropped the lockdowns a good while back. At the time there were outcries as to how canceling the lockdowns would lead to massive outbreaks. California kept the lockdowns in place. Turns out the two states are close to neck in neck in terms of covid cases. I can go back to that other web forum and dig out the CDC stats if necessary.

 

[Ulu]

California has thousands of infected folks pouring over the border weekly. The infection rate among illegals is shockingly high.

 

[dogofwar]

I picked the point about COVID because this is about COVID. You can start another thread about denying global warming or other nonsense. I'm sure that you can find a link from Steve Hilton or some other cable news host misinterpreting climate data to demonstrate that the scientists at NASA have it all wrong - No, they're deceiving us! - and that climate change is all just made up by the media (and scientists).

So let's focus: This thread is about how coronavirus has affected our personal lives.

While my family has been spared from COVID, our nation has lost over 600,000 souls: mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and husbands and wives.

In the US, we're in a situation (maybe unique in the world) where the issue isn't securing enough vaccine for our people but overcoming misinformation and other barriers to getting people to take it. Here in Maryland, over 70% of eligible people have gotten at least one shot. In Vermont, it's over 80%. But other states lag with barely 35% in Mississippi. And this creates islands of vulnerability in these places (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6fbdb2-cd3e-11eb-a7f1-52b8870bef7c_story.html)

As long as misinformation and other factors motivate people from getting vaccinated (and/or wearing a mask...when they're not vaccinated), then it places many of us at risk. My (under 12) kids can't get vaccinated. My immuno-compromised friends are at risk. And of course other unvaccinated people are.

So how do each of use make decisions? The simplest approach is for each of us to learn to recognize misinformation and to recognize credible sources.... and follow the latter and not the former.

That 85% of the faculty Senate at Stanford University voted to condemn the COVID actions of their colleague and former federal COVID official Scott Atlas should tell us all something. They "specified six actions that Atlas has taken that “promote a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science.”

Among the actions cited are: discouraging the use of masks and other protective measures, misrepresenting knowledge and opinion regarding the management of pandemics, endangering citizens and public officials, showing disdain for established medical knowledge and damaging Stanford’s reputation and academic standing. The resolution states that Atlas’ behavior is “anathema to our community, our values and our belief that we should use knowledge for good.”

So what is another resource to identify the bias in sources? Mediabiasfactcheck.com is a good one. I'd never heard of the AIER. So I looked it up: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-institute-for-economic-research/

Guess what?
"Overall, we rate The American Institute for Economic Research Right-Center biased based on Libertarian-leaning economic policy and Mixed for factual reporting due to the publication of misinformation related to Coronavirus."

Hello; I note that dogofwar picked one thing from my post link, Dr. Atlas. I do hope any who are interested did read the link for yourself to get the context. That part was less about Dr. Atlas himself, but rather more about how the media portrayed the two scientists. Check for yourself.

I decided to find some more information. So looked up the Great Barrington Declaration. While searching I found the following article. here is the link.

Great Barrington Declaration Scientists with Gov. DeSantis in Florida – AIER


The article is about a meeting with Florida govenor DeSantis which happened not long ago. Dr. Atlas in part of a panel. His comments are included in the text. I suggest you read his comments for your self. In particular about the lockdowns.

Note- Here is an interesting thing I learned in a different discussion. Florida dropped the lockdowns a good while back. At the time there were outcries as to how canceling the lockdowns would lead to massive outbreaks. California kept the lockdowns in place. Turns out the two states are close to neck in neck in terms of covid cases. I can go back to that other web forum and dig out the CDC stats if necessary.

American Institute for Economic Research - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[skjl47]

quote of my comment (skjl47)

"Note- Here is an interesting thing I learned in a different discussion. Florida dropped the lockdowns a good while back. At the time there were outcries as to how canceling the lockdowns would lead to massive outbreaks. California kept the lockdowns in place. Turns out the two states are close to neck in neck in terms of covid cases. I can go back to that other web forum and dig out the CDC stats if necessary."


United States COVID-19 Statistics: 33,554,246 Cases / 602,089 Deaths / 363,825,123 Tests / Avg cases/day 68,121 declined 25.1% from 14 days ago Avg deaths/day 2,034 declined 17.22% from 14 days ago (Updated Jun 22, 2021 @ 1:15am) (covidusa.net)

Hello; This is an interesting site. Scroll down to the individual states to get more detail. You can look at each state's numbers. Compare states which have continued lockdowns to those who opened up long ago such as Texas and Florida . My state TN has even had in person school for the most recent school year.

 

[dogofwar]

So is your point that states like Florida that didn't "lock down" (i.e. require people to wear masks and social distance) had better COVID-19 outcomes (fewer per capital deaths, hospitalizations, infections) than states that did... so requiring people to wear masks and social distance was misguided policy?

quote of my comment (skjl47)

"Note- Here is an interesting thing I learned in a different discussion. Florida dropped the lockdowns a good while back. At the time there were outcries as to how canceling the lockdowns would lead to massive outbreaks. California kept the lockdowns in place. Turns out the two states are close to neck in neck in terms of covid cases. I can go back to that other web forum and dig out the CDC stats if necessary."


United States COVID-19 Statistics: 33,554,246 Cases / 602,089 Deaths / 363,825,123 Tests / Avg cases/day 68,121 declined 25.1% from 14 days ago Avg deaths/day 2,034 declined 17.22% from 14 days ago (Updated Jun 22, 2021 @ 1:15am) (covidusa.net)

Hello; This is an interesting site. Scroll down to the individual states to get more detail. You can look at each state's numbers. Compare states which have continued lockdowns to those who opened up long ago such as Texas and Florida . My state TN has even had in person school for the most recent school year.

 

[skjl47]

So is your point that states like Florida that didn't "lock down" (i.e. require people to wear masks and social distance) had better COVID-19 outcomes (fewer per capital deaths, hospitalizations, infections) than states that did... so requiring people to wear masks and social distance was misguided policy?

Hello; Open the link and look at the numbers. The logic for a lockdown was supposed to be a better outcome, not close to a dead heat. Add the economic costs to the mix. Add the no personal school to the mix. Add the health outcomes because folks did not get chemo or tests or checkups. Even mental health outcomes.
Go back and read statements from Dr. Atlas in an earlier link to see what he had favored in terms of lockdowns and school closings. Also in terms of looking out for the elderly and the more vulnerable.

here is the link.

Great Barrington Declaration Scientists with Gov. DeSantis in Florida – AIER

Hello; Even if you cannot conceive of reasons why the colleagues of Dr. Atlas dumped on him, I can. The date was November of 2020. Seems to me a fair chance his stance will prove to have merit.

 

[dogofwar]

To conclude that lockdowns, masks, social distancing and other measures are not effective because two states seem to have similar outcomes but different approaches to the pandemic would be incorrect.

Why Do California and Florida Have Similar COVID-19 Case Rates? The Answer Is Complicated

Despite different restrictions during the pandemic, California and Florida have similar per capita rates of COVID-19 cases.
Experts say safety rules are only part of the equation when it comes to COVID-19 case spread. There’s also housing density, income levels, and health systems.
Experts note that North Dakota and South Dakota are among the least restrictive states but are among the highest in per capita cases.
...
That fact has been seized upon by some as evidence that mask wearing, physical distancing, and other mitigation efforts are not effective at preventing the spread of the virus.
However, experts say the real reason for this dynamic is much more complicated.

Confounders abound
“First, I kind of reject the premise of the California versus Florida comparison,” Whitney R. Robinson, PhD, MSPH, an associate professor of epidemiology at the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health, told Healthline. “[COVID deniers] are cherry-picking a restrictive state that’s done worse than other restrictive states and chosen a permissive state that’s fared better than other permissive states.”

“This comparison isn’t an accident. They are stacking the deck by choosing outliers that favor their argument,” she said.

The data bears this out.

North Dakota and South Dakota are both among the least restrictive states in the country with the higher per capita case rates of COVID-19 in the country.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Everything You Need to Know | Healthline

Live news & updates on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak

www.healthline.com

Hello; Open the link and look at the numbers. The logic for a lockdown was supposed to be a better outcome, not close to a dead heat. Add the economic costs to the mix. Add the no personal school to the mix. Add the health outcomes because folks did not get chemo or tests or checkups. Even mental health outcomes.
Go back and read statements from Dr. Atlas in an earlier link to see what he had favored in terms of lockdowns and school closings. Also in terms of looking out for the elderly and the more vulnerable.



Hello; Even if you cannot conceive of reasons why the colleagues of Dr. Atlas dumped on him, I can. The date was November of 2020. Seems to me a fair chance his stance will prove to have merit.

 

[dogofwar]

There are numerous international examples - like Australia, New Zealand and South Korea - that did much better than the US as a result of voluntary and mandatory lock downs, mask-wearing, widespread national testing and contact tracing programs and social distancing.

Two countries that began with the "herd immunity" approach - Sweden and England - abandoned them because they did not work.
Sweden abandons herd immunity approach as cases soar, introduces strict COVID-19 restrictions

Stuff

www.newshub.co.nz

The U.K.’s Coronavirus ‘Herd Immunity’ Debacle

The U.K.’s Coronavirus ‘Herd Immunity’ Debacle

The country is not aiming for 60 percent of the populace to get COVID-19, but you’d be forgiven for thinking so based on how badly the actual plan has been explained.

www.theatlantic.com

Scott Atlas's colleagues at Stanford voted to condemn his actions for "promoting a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science” and for calling for insurrection in Michigan. And they were right to do it.

My money is on history looking back on Atlas and the president who followed his misguided advice as being responsible for hundreds of thousands of unnecessary COVID deaths. He literally has blood on his hands and - somehow - people are still arguing that the world is flat, the sky is green and that if we just would have listened to Scott Atlas that we'd all be in great shape. Here's what his fellow advisor Dr. Birx had to say:

Chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta asked Birx how much of a difference she thinks it would have made had the United States “mitigated earlier, … paused earlier and actually done it,” referring to extending shutdowns, urging people to wear masks and implementing other steps to slow the spread of the virus.

“I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx told Gupta. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/27/birx-tells-cnn-most-us-covid-deaths-could-have-been-mitigated-after-first-100000/

Hello; Open the link and look at the numbers. The logic for a lockdown was supposed to be a better outcome, not close to a dead heat. Add the economic costs to the mix. Add the no personal school to the mix. Add the health outcomes because folks did not get chemo or tests or checkups. Even mental health outcomes.
Go back and read statements from Dr. Atlas in an earlier link to see what he had favored in terms of lockdowns and school closings. Also in terms of looking out for the elderly and the more vulnerable.



Hello; Even if you cannot conceive of reasons why the colleagues of Dr. Atlas dumped on him, I can. The date was November of 2020. Seems to me a fair chance his stance will prove to have merit.

 

[Ogertron3000]

There are numerous international examples - like Australia, New Zealand and South Korea - that did much better than the US as a result of voluntary and mandatory lock downs, mask-wearing, widespread national testing and contact tracing programs and social distancing.

Two countries that began with the "herd immunity" approach - Sweden and England - abandoned them because they did not work.
Sweden abandons herd immunity approach as cases soar, introduces strict COVID-19 restrictions

Stuff

www.newshub.co.nz

The U.K.’s Coronavirus ‘Herd Immunity’ Debacle

The U.K.’s Coronavirus ‘Herd Immunity’ Debacle

The country is not aiming for 60 percent of the populace to get COVID-19, but you’d be forgiven for thinking so based on how badly the actual plan has been explained.

www.theatlantic.com

Scott Atlas's colleagues at Stanford voted to condemn his actions for "promoting a view of COVID-19 that contradicts medical science” and for calling for insurrection in Michigan. And they were right to do it.

My money is on history looking back on Atlas and the president who followed his misguided advice as being responsible for hundreds of thousands of unnecessary COVID deaths. He literally has blood on his hands and - somehow - people are still arguing that the world is flat, the sky is green and that if we just would have listened to Scott Atlas that we'd all be in great shape. Here's what his fellow advisor Dr. Birx had to say:

Chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta asked Birx how much of a difference she thinks it would have made had the United States “mitigated earlier, … paused earlier and actually done it,” referring to extending shutdowns, urging people to wear masks and implementing other steps to slow the spread of the virus.

“I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge,” Birx told Gupta. “All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/27/birx-tells-cnn-most-us-covid-deaths-could-have-been-mitigated-after-first-100000/

here in Melbourne, australia we had a very strict lockdown last year for nearly 3 months. It was not fun but it did get the cases down from 700 per day to zero. The economic and social costs have been huge but we have also been almost Covid free since September last year.Even so there were 800 deaths, mainly in aged care facilities.

There’s been a few outbreaks due to quarantine from international travelers returning being stuffed up and we have had 2 more 2-3 week lockdowns but otherwise it’s been nearly normal here.
The result of being so free is complacency and a very low vaccination rate. I’m personally not in a hurry to get it but will eventually.

theres lots of debate here about whether the lockdown was the right thing to do but when i see what happened in other countries I really wonder what would have happened if we didn’t do it. Other states have had different approaches but all have had a lockdown at some stage.

As for masks, I don’t like them but I don’t think they do any harm and may protect someone more vulnerable so will wear it when required.

without meaning to offend either of you, this debate seems to sum up the rest of the worlds view of the USA these daysTwo very different viewpoints that both make sense in their own way butboth have their heels dug in and won’t concede that there may be some merit in what the other guy is saying.