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Rats/rodents like to scurry around at night, so unless you have motion activated lights and happen to be up late at night, you won't see them. Of all the places to see a rat, I have seen a couple running along the top of my fence and it was only after I put a motion detection light on the fence itself.

Didn't you read his MFK post about rats chewing through 45 mil pond liner, below the water line?
I read the post. The only time I've seen a rat is when my cats kill them. They are out patrolling the yard at night. What do you suggest I do know? Leave the pond liner underground? I could add a little edge on the retaining wall so the rats need to do acrobatics. I think we would notice a hole in the ground around the pond. Is there any solution for rats?
 
I read the post. The only time I've seen a rat is when my cats kill them. They are out patrolling the yard at night. What do you suggest I do know? Leave the pond liner underground? I could add a little edge on the retaining wall so the rats need to do acrobatics. I think we would notice a hole in the ground around the pond. Is there any solution for rats?

You could bait/trap them, but that brings other unwanted issues. Ken's already provided a better solution than pond liner.
 
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You know wildlife are very active at nighttime? Ive seen many rodents on my nest doorbell camera scurrying between the sidewalk edges/line, foxes hunting the rodent trail, skunks, opossums and would swear we never see them during the daytime. Its neat and amazingn to see an entirely different world come out at nightfall.

FYI The raccoon likes to make a mockery out of me laying on the lawn spreadeagled. In front of the porch after he climbs the table for the stray cat food. Fox doesnt even touch it. Theyre more interested in the mice and the bowl of fresh water.

Hard to see but raccon was spreadeagled and rolling around for good 5 minutes chilling

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Is the retaining wall needed to prevent the pond from popping out of the ground?

If your grade is slanted, you will need a retaining wall no matter how you slice it, either on high side of the pond (bad; runoff? pop?) or on the low grade side.

I'd listen to Ken and forgo the liner or protect the liner from outside by concrete or even better sandwich the liner between two layers of concrete (with a layer of underlayment on top and bottom too). IDK what Ken would say to that.

Now, mind you, our 25K is 1/3rd inground and is the 45 mil EPDM liner. Has been running for two years no problem. It's semi-protected by the screen enclosure, yet I have seen mice and rats make it inside easy and even make a nest behind the liner but I killed them in time. The key for me are the poison bait stations.

We have had a 12K koi pond back in Rochester, NY for 5 years, full in ground, EDPM liner, heavily protected by old carpeting, many layers, from the ground. And a long, long stream. Didn't have any noticeable problems. I am sure plenty rats were around.

Here is the link to our former koi pond:

summer


winter:

 
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Forgot to answer your doubt about rodent ability to chew through liner. As the guys said above, mice and rats will chew up and through the liner no problem ability-wise, it may be like a bubble gum to them. They can chew up far, far harder materials, if hard pressed - on par with their relatives squirrels and beavers. Now their motivation to do so may be your saving grace.

In abandoned houses, seasonally inhabited cottages, etc. hungry overwintering rodents eat up wallpaper with the glue, cloth, plastic, wire harnesses, plastic wire insulation, wooden furniture, etc. Hunger is a great motivator to try to feed even on inedible or hardly edible / digestible items.

Why they'd chew on rubber in the "wild", that is your yard, IDK. It seems to me to be a hit and miss. The risk of the "hit" Ken is indicating is surely worth avoiding. You will only taste the frustration of it when you have to repair or replace your punctured liner.

Now a hole well below ground level and protected from being washed out and turned into an underground cavity by the underlayment and/or by the soil being hard might not even be noticed. I am sure many liner pond owners have such holes and don't even know it. Still, this is a rather careless approach. Instead of guessing what if, address this most serious potential problem from the design stage.... is our advice.

But shoving knowledge and advice down one's throat, no matter how well motivated, is repugnant. You are a free man in a free country. We will appreciate whatever you do as long as you share it and let us learn with you and through you. Maybe not all, maybe not equally, but most of us will appreciate it.
 
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Interesting discussion about rats here. My precious home in Ontario had a barn that sheltered a goodly number of rats upon which I waged war for the entire ten+ years I lived there. Rats can chew through metal pipe and metal garbage cans given enough time; hardwood is a single night's work for them. They will chew through electrical insulation, sometimes getting fried in the process. We had vehicles damaged by them, plus farm equipment, livestock feed, electrical conduit...you name it, they can chew through it. If they want to they could destroy your liner in literally minutes.

Oddly enough, we have never had a pond liner damaged by either rats or any of the other rodents that are common in the yard. In Ontario we had gray and red squirrels, chipmunks and several species of mice and voles. Here in Manitoba, we have all those plus Richardson's Ground Squirrels, which burrow under the small wooden deck next to our pond. I have been blissfully ignorant of the potential problem, and so far it hasn't surfaced as a real issue.

Rodents chew to obtain food and also to wear down their constantly-growing front teeth. I'm not sure how either of these motivations would tempt them to chew a rubber pond liner, unless they actually enjoy eating the rubber the same way they eat plastic insulation. Has anyone had actual experience with rodents damaging an EPDM pond liner?
 
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