H. fossilis

[Karno]

Hey guys,

First time poster here but long time lurker.

I'm wondering if any of you have experience with keeping H. fossilis (also known as stinging catfish)? IIRC, Clariidaes are banned in the US (?)... and since this species was just recently removed from that family, I guess that this post is aimed more towards the aquarists from other parts of the world. Maybe there are some EU or Asian keepers out there?

From what I've heard the care is overall pretty straightforward; seems to be a fairly undemanding species. But the venomous aspect is making me a bit uneasy... I get that you don't want to just stick your hand in there when doing maintenance and stuff, but how much caution is really needed? Say for example that you were to handfeed them from the surface, would that be a reckless gamble? So yeah, some input on their venomous spines would be appreciated.

Also, I was thinking maybe a 125G with the possibility to upgrade to 150 when/if needed for a species tank of 3-4 fish. Is that reasonable, or would they need something bigger? IMO that wouldn't be enough space for a pair of Clarias, even when they are not yet fully grown. But I've been told that the fossilis are less active and more laid back. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks! Hopefully someone can either push me to pull the trigger or perhaps to wave it off and go in a different direction.

 

[jjohnwm]

I kept a single one of these for several years, back in the early '80's. It was an easy keeper, and would emerge from hiding when food was offered. The rest of the daylight hours were spent in a cave or pipe, from which it would emerge at dark and cruise the tank all night. Maybe it would have been less shy if it had been kept in a group, but they were rarely available in my area and I only had the one. Ate anything offered, including small fish, but it doesn't have a huge mouth like some predatory cats and (unlike Clarias I also had) it doesn't aggressively harass and pick at tankmates too big to swallow whole.

I had been poked a couple times as a kid by Bullheads caught fishing, so I was cautious about handling it but not to any exaggerated degree. No problem or hesitation feeding it from my fingers, or working in the tank, although I wouldn't pick it up or move it around in my hands.

Mine took maybe two years to slowly grow to about 9 inches, then growth slowed down even more and it was still less than a foot long a year later when it squeezed through an impossibly small hole in the tank cover and perished on the floor...after crawling along for at least 50 feet and ending up in a completely different room.

It's essentially a smaller, less aggressive, less troublesome, less showy (no albinos available that I know of), less "in your face" version of a Clarias cat. Might be an interesting breeding project if you can get them.

 

[tlindsey]

Hey guys,

First time poster here but long time lurker.

I'm wondering if any of you have experience with keeping H. fossilis (also known as stinging catfish)? IIRC, Clariidaes are banned in the US (?)... and since this species was just recently removed from that family, I guess that this post is aimed more towards the aquarists from other parts of the world. Maybe there are some EU or Asian keepers out there?

From what I've heard the care is overall pretty straightforward; seems to be a fairly undemanding species. But the venomous aspect is making me a bit uneasy... I get that you don't want to just stick your hand in there when doing maintenance and stuff, but how much caution is really needed? Say for example that you were to handfeed them from the surface, would that be a reckless gamble? So yeah, some input on their venomous spines would be appreciated.

Also, I was thinking maybe a 125G with the possibility to upgrade to 150 when/if needed for a species tank of 3-4 fish. Is that reasonable, or would they need something bigger? IMO that wouldn't be enough space for a pair of Clarias, even when they are not yet fully grown. But I've been told that the fossilis are less active and more laid back. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks! Hopefully someone can either push me to pull the trigger or perhaps to wave it off and go in a different direction.

Hey guys,

First time poster here but long time lurker.

I'm wondering if any of you have experience with keeping H. fossilis (also known as stinging catfish)? IIRC, Clariidaes are banned in the US (?)... and since this species was just recently removed from that family, I guess that this post is aimed more towards the aquarists from other parts of the world. Maybe there are some EU or Asian keepers out there?

From what I've heard the care is overall pretty straightforward; seems to be a fairly undemanding species. But the venomous aspect is making me a bit uneasy... I get that you don't want to just stick your hand in there when doing maintenance and stuff, but how much caution is really needed? Say for example that you were to handfeed them from the surface, would that be a reckless gamble? So yeah, some input on their venomous spines would be appreciated.

Also, I was thinking maybe a 125G with the possibility to upgrade to 150 when/if needed for a species tank of 3-4 fish. Is that reasonable, or would they need something bigger? IMO that wouldn't be enough space for a pair of Clarias, even when they are not yet fully grown. But I've been told that the fossilis are less active and more laid back. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks! Hopefully someone can either push me to pull the trigger or perhaps to wave it off and go in a different direction.

Welcome aboard

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I think almost all catfish employ some kind of neurotoxin to defend themselves. Usually it is contained within the slime on their spines or I remember vaguely reading about pockets of venom stored under the skin on the spines, so that when a spine is used as a lancer and the skin on the spine is broken, the toxin is released into the puncture wound of an attacker.

I personally think it sounds worse than it is. I mean the pain could be bad for a short while but this is no snake venom and the only serious consequence may come from secondary infections and not from the venom itself, designed to cause localized, short term pain, not a paralysis of a limb of a large organism like a human, or of the whole nervous system.

I've been stabbed by catfish in hands and feet more than I care to recall, including by Clarias. Never kept the fossilis though.

As for the tank size, it sounds quite good to me.

As stated by JJ, they are masters at escape. Their agility is astonishing to an unprepared. They can climb swiftly out of a net when netted.

 

[Karno]

I kept a single one of these for several years, back in the early '80's. It was an easy keeper, and would emerge from hiding when food was offered. The rest of the daylight hours were spent in a cave or pipe, from which it would emerge at dark and cruise the tank all night. Maybe it would have been less shy if it had been kept in a group, but they were rarely available in my area and I only had the one. Ate anything offered, including small fish, but it doesn't have a huge mouth like some predatory cats and (unlike Clarias I also had) it doesn't aggressively harass and pick at tankmates too big to swallow whole.

I had been poked a couple times as a kid by Bullheads caught fishing, so I was cautious about handling it but not to any exaggerated degree. No problem or hesitation feeding it from my fingers, or working in the tank, although I wouldn't pick it up or move it around in my hands.

Mine took maybe two years to slowly grow to about 9 inches, then growth slowed down even more and it was still less than a foot long a year later when it squeezed through an impossibly small hole in the tank cover and perished on the floor...after crawling along for at least 50 feet and ending up in a completely different room.

It's essentially a smaller, less aggressive, less troublesome, less showy (no albinos available that I know of), less "in your face" version of a Clarias cat. Might be an interesting breeding project if you can get them.

That's super helpful and exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Thanks a lot!

 

[Karno]

I think almost all catfish employ some kind of neurotoxin to defend themselves. Usually it is contained within the slime on their spines or I remember vaguely reading about pockets of venom stored under the skin on the spines, so that when a spine is used as a lancer and the skin on the spine is broken, the toxin is released into the puncture wound of an attacker.

I personally think it sounds worse than it is. I mean the pain could be bad for a short while but this is no snake venom and the only serious consequence may come from secondary infections and not from the venom itself, designed to cause localized, short term pain, not a paralysis of a limb of a large organism like a human, or of the whole nervous system.

I've been stabbed by catfish in hands and feet more than I care to recall, including by Clarias. Never kept the fossilis though.

As for the tank size, it sounds quite good to me.

As stated by JJ, they are masters at escape. Their agility is astonishing to an unprepared. They can climb swiftly out of a net when netted.

Thanks for your input. Yeah, that makes sense. However, most reports that I've read online claims that this species in particular is on another level, being one of only a handful that you really need to be careful with. It could very well be exaggerated, but I just don't know. If it's only a matter of pain then I'd be fine with that, and I could just put up a warning sign on the tank.

 

[Fishman Dave]

My understanding is that this is another level too. I kept a pair for around eight years and was always concerned when I left the fish to others to look after when on vacation as I didn’t want someone finding one on the floor and picking it up to put it back. I was wary when hands in the tank moving decor around but would not say they were aggressive or overly dangerous, albeit it has been known that people have died from being stung, but that’s the same for wasps.
Pretty much same experience as others on here. A small, relatively shy relative of Clarias. The male grew to around 9” and the female to about 11” but fairly slow growing. Came out for food but couldn’t get to hand feed. Very secretive even in a tank with little light and many hideouts. Never got them to breed but think it should be possible. Never any trouble to other tank mates in fact they were more often on the receiving end of trouble rather than givers. Tank size of 4 ft x 15” would be ample for a pair but bigger is better.

 

[Karno]

My understanding is that this is another level too. I kept a pair for around eight years and was always concerned when I left the fish to others to look after when on vacation as I didn’t want someone finding one on the floor and picking it up to put it back. I was wary when hands in the tank moving decor around but would not say they were aggressive or overly dangerous, albeit it has been known that people have died from being stung, but that’s the same for wasps.
Pretty much same experience as others on here. A small, relatively shy relative of Clarias. The male grew to around 9” and the female to about 11” but fairly slow growing. Came out for food but couldn’t get to hand feed. Very secretive even in a tank with little light and many hideouts. Never got them to breed but think it should be possible. Never any trouble to other tank mates in fact they were more often on the receiving end of trouble rather than givers. Tank size of 4 ft x 15” would be ample for a pair but bigger is better.

I appreciate you and John taking the time to share your own personal experiences. That kind of insight is of great value to me. Thank you.

I feel like the pros are slowly outweighing the cons here, but the main thing that's still holding me back is that I picture myself having the same problem as you describe with letting family/friends look after them. Because that part is complicated as it is, and I can't imagine that adding a potentially deadly escape artist to the mix would make it any easier... Honestly don't think it will be a dealbreaker though. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

FWIW, in my 15 years in the hobby and being into catfish and being super duper active, I've never heard any horror or even a bad story involving fossilis. Has anyone? I'd wager not but do speak up. Until then, I personally don't think this is some kind of another level. I believe 90% of catfish can be named "stinging".

 

[Fishman Dave]

Don’t know of any cases personally but that may be due to a) the additional care taken due to over estimating the sting and b) the lesser amount this catfish is kept in our countries.
Below is an extract of a report from Poland

The stinging catfish Heteropneustes fossilis (Bloch, 1794) has become a popular aquarium fish in Poland and is available in almost every pet shop. The toxicological centers in Cracow, Gdansk and Warsaw have recorded twelve cases of envenomations caused by stinging catfish in the years 1994-2008. In most cases the injury was accompanied by oedema, erythema, intense pain, numbness of the site and dizziness.
There are other reports from medical centres there which recommend that fossilis should be licensed to keep and on a venomous registration list along with the likes of some snakes.

I agree that many catfish have spines and many have a form of toxin in the spine as a sting, although I believe the difference with fossilis and some other Clariadae is that they carry the toxin in a gland or sack at the base of the pectoral fin so you just get slightly more of it.

Below is a more detailed one

The ability of catfish to inflict extremely painful wounds with their pectoral and dorsal stings has been well known for many decades. The venom apparatus of the African catfish Clarias gariepinus (Burchell, 1822), and stinging catfish Heteropneustes fossilis (Bloch, 1794) is constituted by a single, sharp and stout sting immediately in front of the soft-rayed portion of the pectoral fins. The sting has well developed articulations, making it possible for it to become erect and locked. The toxicological centres in Poland have recorded 17 cases of envenomations caused by stinging catfish and African catfish; the injury was accompanied by intense pain, numbness of the site, dizziness, local oedema and erythema. In addition, systemic symptoms such as tachycardia, weakness and arterial hypotension were observed. The treatment of these injuries should include cleansing of the wound and surrounding area. Immersion of the wounded extremity in hot water (45 degrees C) was used for the pain control. An attempt to remove any spinal sheath or remnant must be undertaken. Antibiotic management depends on several factors: the age and immune status of the victim, the interval between injury and presentation, or the presence of a foreign body. The most serious long-term complications of sting envenomation involve infections.


Again, nothing more really than for any other catfish spine jab, depending on the health, fitness and immune status of the victim