What size sump for 200 gallon?

[Disturbed.)]

I have a 200 gallon with larger cichlids and catfish.
I’m looking at changing to a sump, I was offered roughly a 25 gallon one for free but not sure it will be large enough?

Trying to get back on topic but hope the OP realizes that the media you use, the stocking and the design if the sump chambers will determine if it's big enough.
If the return chamber can't handle what comes down when the power goes out, the sump is too small. If the return chamber takes up too much of the sump and your small bio chamber is filled with lava rock or worse, your sump is too small, or your media could be improved. If you want to run an eheim Jager 300 watt heater 25 gallons will be too small because these heaters are forever long. I designed my return chamber around those huge heaters. There are a ton more things that can influence if it will be adequate. If it's free grab it or at least get pics and measurements, there are plenty of people on here happy to help make that call with the right info. but bigger is always better this is Monster Fish Keepers after all

 

[ken31cay]

My 450gal has a 100gal sump which works well. My 180gal has 29gal sump, which works but in hindsight I would have preferred at least 40gal.

 

[Midwater]

After all the debate, it seems the best bio media is ... each to his own.

But a bigger sump is better.

 

[jjohnwm]

Lava rock and pumice work. Sure. Pot scrubbies work. Gravel works...All of those are nearly impossible to clean. Regardless of how impossible they are.... THEY NEED CLEANING... you may choose not to do it, which is fine... but they build up detritus and also through normal use, lose surface area. And that happens QUICKLY. K1 never needs to be cleaned because it doesn't build up detritus.

Agreed ^...but there are other factors to consider. All biomedia do build up bacteria that eventually gum them regardless of how well water is filtered mechanically before entering the biomedia chamber; however, the degree and frequency of the required cleaning will depend upon the structure of the media chosen. If you choose lava rock or one of the ceramic media, with extremely fine channels and pores, you will find the clogging is more rapid and the cleaning virtually impossible to effect. Coarser media like scrubbies or shotshell wads are far more open; they have much less area per unit volume and so require a larger sump to provide the same total surface area, but clogging is very slow and cleaning is very simple, nothing more than a thorough rinse. K1 may well be the "best" in this regard...but it ain't cheap...and definitely requires the equipment to keep it fluidized if its benefits are to be maximized.

Trying to get back on topic but hope the OP realizes that the media you use, the stocking and the design if the sump chambers will determine if it's big enough.
If the return chamber can't handle what comes down when the power goes out, the sump is too small. If the return chamber takes up too much of the sump and your small bio chamber is filled with lava rock or worse, your sump is too small, or your media could be improved. If you want to run an eheim Jager 300 watt heater 25 gallons will be too small because these heaters are forever long. I designed my return chamber around those huge heaters. There are a ton more things that can influence if it will be adequate. If it's free grab it or at least get pics and measurements, there are plenty of people on here happy to help make that call with the right info. but bigger is always better this is Monster Fish Keepers after all

Agreed ^ ...but with some provisos. Difficulty of providing room for long heaters...pumps taking up too much room to allow for sufficient biomedia...overflowing of sumps in the event of power failures...all these things are largely mitigated or entirely avoided by overcoming the fascination that many seem to have with elaborate multi-chambered sumps.

I have personally assisted a friend clean up his basement fishroom after his sump...which was 8x2x2 feet in dimensions...overflowed probably 50 gallons of water during an outage. That sump had so many partitions and compartments and divertors that it looked like it should have a chunk of cheese at one end and a white rat trying to find it...but the final compartment, which contained the pump and which determined how much overflow could be contained, was 2feet x 2feet x 10inches!

Sumps are best kept simple, IMHO, with a minimum of chambers. Some partitions may...may...be necessary to properly channel flow through mechanical filtration, but generally speaking the fewer partitions the better. And, yes, bigger...when it comes to sumps...is always better...and the main reason is simply because a bigger sump translates to a larger overall water volume in the system.

After all the debate, it seems the best bio media is ... each to his own.

But a bigger sump is better.

Agreed ^...no arguments!

 

[Disturbed.)]

Yes yes and yess. . Your ability to maintain it and your capability to house said media are part of the art.
If I could afford a team of engineers all my tanks would be pressurized sand filtered and I'd just gawk at my fish from time to time. But alas all my tanks are built from scraps. Each has its own challenges based on what I knew then or knew was a problem and accepted the risk and ran it anyway. It really is an art and you have to put the science to your budget and your own time commitment. That all being said I hope this little discussion hasn't persuaded anyone from trying a sump or a certain media. Hell, most of the reason I peek in here is to see if someone as crazy as I am has tried X fish with Z fish that shouldn't work. Or built this crazy thing and it turned out to be a big waste of money. Damn I've built a lot of those I wish someone else had posted their shame first lol.
Ultimately this is all about being happy and having happy fish. There isn't one way to do that but questions "Can it work... if I do it right and put in the proper maintenance". MAYBE! Let's see! Newton was God for 200 years before Einstine proved he was wrong. Yet we still used Newtons math to go to the moon because it was easier. If it works for you your budget and your time and provides a healthy habitat for your livestock then in every aspect it is right

 

[ken31cay]

Good discussion which I think can be a help to those getting a new sump setup.

The reason for feeling my 29gal sump is too small is the general difficulty I find in working with the smaller size tank compared to working with my 100gal sump. But as I said the 29gal still works fine.

As for the bio media, I use the bio balls which originally came with both sumps. The bio balls have been sufficient and I've always been meticulous about no detritus getting past the mechanical media and reaching the bio balls chambers.

 

[duanes]

Good discussion which I think can be a help to those getting a new sump setup.

The reason for feeling my 29gal sump is too small is the general difficulty I find in working with the smaller size tank compared to working with my 100gal sump. But as I said the 29gal still works fine.

As for the bio media, I use the bio balls which originally came with both sumps. The bio balls have been sufficient and I've always been meticulous about no detritus getting past the mechanical media and reaching the bio balls chambers.

I agree, that for me, its all about user friendly access.
When I put sumps hidden in cabinets, or under the limited space of tanks that they were filtering, access for arm room and equipment handling, and maintenance was my biggest bugaboo, and one of the main reasons maintenance, on pumps, plumbing, and cleaning media, was an excuse to be avoided ..
It was sometimes hard to finagle a pump between the top tank, and sump rim just to clean an impeller shaft
After I realized putting sumps kitty corner, and open to more more leg and arm room I stopped cramming them in tight spaces.
There is no law that says a sump needs to be feet below the tank, just low enough to allow gravity to work its magic is sufficient
And also found there was vertical room, for adding bio-and calcium reactors.

And the idea that what a biofilm surface is made of, or that bacteria need 1000 yards if space, is all commercial hype.
1 million of these bio-film bacteria, can fit on the head of pin.
As an experiment, for a number of years, the bag of media below, was the only bio media in a sump, filtering 400 gallons of large cichlid tanks with only the addition of a separate 40 gal breeder planted sump.
And there was never an ammonia spike.

 

[Backfromthedead]

My 450gal has a 100gal sump which works well. My 180gal has 29gal sump, which works but in hindsight I would have preferred at least 40gal.

I had a similar sized setup, 135g w 30g sump, that utilized an elevated side sump. It worked very well for maintenance, probably the easiest setup ive had. My plan was to install a sealed 100g water reservoir under the main tank to catch overflow from the sump and the tank and hold bio, effectively making the 30g my mechanical and heating section. Never got that one finished, tank is mothballed for now though.

 

[duanes]

Another bit of trivia.
Note the section on oxygen being one of the most important factors in bacterial growth.
Nitrifying Bacteria - an overview | ScienceDirect Topicshttps://www.sciencedirect.com › topics › nitrifying-bacteria

 

[jjohnwm]

It's funny...many, perhaps most, of the big tanks we see on MFK are filtered by sumps, and numerous people like the OP and others are concerned that their sumps may be too small; this thread asks if a 25gallon sump will be adequate for a 200 gallon tank...

...and yet the other school of thought commonly seen is that sumps are just too complicated and intimidating. Those folks pooh-pooh sumps altogether; they stick one or two big pickle jars equipped with pumps...I think the marketing term is "canisters"...under their aquarium and call it good.

And it is good!...assuming, of course, that the required maintenance is done. When the pickle jars...er, sorry, "canisters"...first came out the marketing was all about how long they could go between cleanings. Weeks or months without maintenance were trumpeted as not only possible but recommended! The pickle jars were "pressurized"...the term was uttered in hushed whispers, and was meant to impart some mysticism to their workings. Like other marketing buzzwords, such as "medicated" or "improved", it didn't really explain much, and hinted at much more...but pressurization simply allowed the pump to force water through media which was rapidly clogging up and not being cleaned.

As the general understanding of proper water conditions improved, the idea of not maintaining one's filter quietly dropped away from the marketing hype for pickle jars, and newer models that were less onerous to clean started to appear. I went through the pickle jar phase and just found them...especially back then in the 80's...too much of a PITA to clean, and I couldn't get comfortable with not cleaning them like the box said. It was sort of like the undergravel filter craze of an even earlier period..."Never clean your aquarium again!"

Yeah, okay, thanks...I thought and still think that cleaning an aquarium filter was a pretty good idea, and that pickle jars were best reserved for pickles.

If you think that your sump is "too small"...think of it in comparison to even the largest pickle jars being used for the same purpose, and you will quickly relax.