100% water changes

[nomadofthehills]

Freshware fish produce ammonia not only while "urinating," but also as a biproduct of respiration. I hope your ammonia levels are 0 no matter what, and if your rate of flow is high enough, your ammonia should basically be processed into nitrites instantly, which should also be turned into nitrates almost instantly as well, which is a why a properly cycled tank should have 0 ammonia and nitrites at all time.

Thus, I see no reason as to why 100% water changes would affect BB.

 

[dmopar74]

how many times have we all read or suggested that when setting up a new tank, if we place fully cycled filters and substrate from the old tank, it will be fine. no need for old water.

i dont know how many times i have read this here on mfk. its the exact same thing as doing a 100% wc.

seems like the only people saying how bad it is have never tried. every person who has posted that they have done it, also posted they never lost a fish from a 100% wc. dont get me wrong im shure it happens to some.

hell ive even done 150% wc's. in hours i emptied and tore down a 100, and setup a 150 with all the same filter and substrate, and completely filled the 150 with new water- no losses. then did the same thing from the 150 to a 180- no losses.

 

[davcheng]

I read an interesting post about a seminar called the "5 gallon oscar tank" in which the person running the seminar puts 12 oscars and a pictus cat in a 75 and does 100% water changes every day without any ill effects. Google it. I don't think it should be a problem. I did 90% water changes every day for a while (trying to get rid of green water) without problem, and all of my fishes survived; similarly i also did about 90% water changes when I had to move back and forth between my apartment at school and home.

 

[jcardona1]

how many times have we all read or suggested that when setting up a new tank, if we place fully cycled filters and substrate from the old tank, it will be fine. no need for old water.

i dont know how many times i have read this here on mfk. its the exact same thing as doing a 100% wc.

seems like the only people saying how bad it is have never tried. every person who has posted that they have done it, also posted they never lost a fish from a 100% wc. dont get me wrong im shure it happens to some.

hell ive even done 150% wc's. in hours i emptied and tore down a 100, and setup a 150 with all the same filter and substrate, and completely filled the 150 with new water- no losses. then did the same thing from the 150 to a 180- no losses.

this is very true also. im starting to think that there are no ill effects of a 100% WC and you shouldnt be losing fish if you do it right. i think you may only run into problems if the temperature and ph of the new water is very different from the old water, then this might stress the fish out.

 

[DB junkie]

I'm with this guy^^^^in the thoughts of no ill effects.

I do this a lot with fish that are uncoopertive, or have killed, or at risk of being killed.

Armatus's tank has 3 ac 110s. He decides one day that he has reached the breaking point with the Rhaphiodon. Course of action.... Go downstairs and grab an empty 75 gallon, rinse out, fill with new water. Grab a 110 off the Armatus tank and throw it on the 75. Toss in fish. The Rhaph is happy and readily accepts food within the 1st day of the move. This is just 1 exaple but I have done this numerous times.

I believe it all boils down to regularity of WC. I do them a bare minimum of twice a week. Therefore the fish are used to my tap water.

 

[nomadofthehills]

I believe it all boils down to regularity of WC. I do them a bare minimum of twice a week. Therefore the fish are used to my tap water.

BINGO

 

[xander]

haha not getting hostile, i like this thread and it has good discussions. but when the OP gets to being downright rude to people for no reason, thats just not cool!

first off, to clear up some mess. jcardona1 i was not being rude. i was simply stating that the thread did not need answers from people who didn't read the title. the question was "WHY is 100%WC bad" and some answers went
"why would you want to do 100% of water change? is it necessary?" , "It's like sucking out all the air of your house, filling it with water, and then filling it with pure oxygen. After about an hour, it should be back to normal, so don't worry." and "I'm not sure, I think it's because they're cold blooded animals??? I just know not to do it and that's enough for me."

when i said "pissing in the thread", i knew it was more offensive, but then again i was getting answers like "The easiest explanation is that by totally draining your aquarium, it will unequalize the effect of gravity with in the aquarium as shown in this formula- W- E3/P =G-- so as you can see, the effect will not stay limited to the localized area. This has the compound effect as the result willexponentially increase until its effecting the gravitational pull of the earth itself. If not remedied straight forth, eventually the planets will cease to align themselves properly. Next thing you know, the water won't even stay in the aquarium any longer. You wouldn't want that, would you?" this guy was clearly laughing at the thread. i felt no need to be nice.

MOVING ON...

Agreed, however, I would be more worried about a nitrite spike as it's the second step in the nitrogen cycle. Your bacteria that feeds on NH3 would be the first to have it's food source replenished. The bacteria that feeds on nitrites would have to wait for the other bacteria to process the NH3 first, causing a temporary shortage in nitrites. Thus the second stage bacteria would starve and die off. Once they die off you leave your tank open to a nitrite spike.

I would say that the only way to avoid these situations with a 100% water change, is once you perform a 100% change, you must continue to do so on a frequent basis in order to avoid these harmful situations. It would be a lot of work and not feasible for the average hobbyist. Now if you are a breeder and this is your livelihood, I would say that it comes with the territory.

and

how many times have we all read or suggested that when setting up a new tank, if we place fully cycled filters and substrate from the old tank, it will be fine. no need for old water.

i dont know how many times i have read this here on mfk. its the exact same thing as doing a 100% wc.

seems like the only people saying how bad it is have never tried. every person who has posted that they have done it, also posted they never lost a fish from a 100% wc. dont get me wrong im shure it happens to some.

hell ive even done 150% wc's. in hours i emptied and tore down a 100, and setup a 150 with all the same filter and substrate, and completely filled the 150 with new water- no losses. then did the same thing from the 150 to a 180- no losses.

both make perfect sense, but completely contradict each other. maybe, with dmopar's answer, could it be that since it's only a one time thing, and the fish could probably live through one nitrite spike, hence it seems as though it's okay, but when there are constant spikes(along with PH/temp fluctuations) that are bad and eventually kill the fish?

and i agree with DB junkie too, i've done that many a time with different fish with no harmful effects.

 

[xander]

btw jcardona1 love the reply on PH

 

[nomadofthehills]

both make perfect sense, but completely contradict each other.

However, there is flawed logic in the first argument. As I stated earlier:

"Freshware fish produce ammonia not only while "urinating," but also as a biproduct of respiration. I hope your ammonia levels are 0 no matter what, and if your rate of flow is high enough, your ammonia should basically be processed into nitrites instantly, which should also be turned into nitrates almost instantly as well, which is a why a properly cycled tank should have 0 ammonia and nitrites at all time.

Thus, I see no reason as to why 100% water changes would affect BB."\


What I was trying to say was that you should not have excess nitrogen (NH4, NO3, NO2, etc) in the water, you only have enough BB to consume what your fish are producing. Thus, changing all of the water should NOT cause a spike, because you are removing nitrates, as ammonia and nitrites are constantly being consumer by the BB.

 

[Hawkfish3.0]

However, there is flawed logic in the first argument. As I stated earlier:

"Freshware fish produce ammonia not only while "urinating," but also as a biproduct of respiration. I hope your ammonia levels are 0 no matter what, and if your rate of flow is high enough, your ammonia should basically be processed into nitrites instantly, which should also be turned into nitrates almost instantly as well, which is a why a properly cycled tank should have 0 ammonia and nitrites at all time.

Thus, I see no reason as to why 100% water changes would affect BB."\


What I was trying to say was that you should not have excess nitrogen (NH4, NO3, NO2, etc) in the water, you only have enough BB to consume what your fish are producing. Thus, changing all of the water should NOT cause a spike, because you are removing nitrates, as ammonia and nitrites are constantly being consumer by the BB.

I would like to have some more information on ammonia as a byproduct of respiration. As far as I know, the only byproducts of respiration are ATP (the source of energy for all aerobic organisms) and CO2 (waste product). This is also called the Krebs Cycle and is part of basic organic chemistry.