770 Gallon Filtration
- Thread starter aldiaz33
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If I ever have water quality issues, I will be sure to reach out to you guys for advice.
Precisely. Glad someone gets it.
Yeah but anybody could have a 700 G tank and stock it with danios and tetras and have great water quality. Most people here would stock a tank like that with monsters though and that sump wouldn't do an adequate job. You could run 2 little XP3 filters on your tank and it would be enough for you because you're that understocked. You don't even need a sump and could save some money and get the same results with a couple small canisters based on your stock.
There's a few things wrong with it. I think filter socks are a great idea. But after the initial filter sock stage, the water just kind of floats out there. If he doesn't change his filter socks quickly enough, all the waste is going to flow out of the top and either catch onto all the bioballs or just sink to the bottom left corner. My guess is he'll have a lot of waste in the bottom left corner because there's not enough water flow in the sump. So he's going to have to siphon his sump often to clean it.
The next problem is all the bio balls just floating there. You have them in the 1st part of your sump before the filter pads. That means the bio balls aren't getting the cleanest water, especially because of what I said above with the waste staying in the corner. Also, they are not exposed to enough oxygen. So not getting the cleanest water and not enough oxygen means there's not much bio on the bio balls. There's probably just as much bio on the sump walls and filter pad than on the bio balls. That's the problem when water doesn't trickle over the bio balls.
The next problem is that you've got your Matrix media just laying there. Any water that passes through those big filter pads is probably going to be higher in the water column because most of the waste is going to collect on the bottom of the pads. So the water flow in the Matrix section is going to be above the Matrix. That means most of the water passing through that part of the sump is probably going over and passing by the Matrix without actually going through it. Since there's not much water passing through the Matrix, new bio can't really be created because the water is too stagnant on the bio. It's not like a canister filter because water is directly going through the bio media. With this setup, the water is passing over it. I'm sure other people could point out other flaws in it.
So like I said, it works for you because you have all small schooling fish in there. You haven't really tested what the sump can do because your fish haven't put enough of a demand on it. I just think it's not right to say this is a well-designed sump because then people are going to try to copy the design, but they'll have smaller tanks and will be more moderately stocked. Then when it doesn't work for them even though they have the same design, they won't know why.
There's a few things wrong with it. I think filter socks are a great idea. But after the initial filter sock stage, the water just kind of floats out there. If he doesn't change his filter socks quickly enough, all the waste is going to flow out of the top and either catch onto all the bioballs or just sink to the bottom left corner. My guess is he'll have a lot of waste in the bottom left corner because there's not enough water flow in the sump. So he's going to have to siphon his sump often to clean it.
The next problem is all the bio balls just floating there. You have them in the 1st part of your sump before the filter pads. That means the bio balls aren't getting the cleanest water, especially because of what I said above with the waste staying in the corner. Also, they are not exposed to enough oxygen. So not getting the cleanest water and not enough oxygen means there's not much bio on the bio balls. There's probably just as much bio on the sump walls and filter pad than on the bio balls. That's the problem when water doesn't trickle over the bio balls.
The next problem is that you've got your Matrix media just laying there. Any water that passes through those big filter pads is probably going to be higher in the water column because most of the waste is going to collect on the bottom of the pads. So the water flow in the Matrix section is going to be above the Matrix. That means most of the water passing through that part of the sump is probably going over and passing by the Matrix without actually going through it. Since there's not much water passing through the Matrix, new bio can't really be created because the water is too stagnant on the bio. It's not like a canister filter because water is directly going through the bio media. With this setup, the water is passing over it. I'm sure other people could point out other flaws in it.
So like I said, it works for you because you have all small schooling fish in there. You haven't really tested what the sump can do because your fish haven't put enough of a demand on it. I just think it's not right to say this is a well-designed sump because then people are going to try to copy the design, but they'll have smaller tanks and will be more moderately stocked. Then when it doesn't work for them even though they have the same design, they won't know why.
There are 52 fish in the tank...none of them are Danios or Tetras.
You are correct though about my water quality....is nice!
I'm not most people. Sorry to disappoint you.
Stock:
9 Widebar Silver Dollar- Myleus Schomburgkii (7 to 8")
12 Yellowtail Rasbora- Rasbora tornieri (5 to 6")
12 Arulius Barbs- Puntius arulius (3")
10 Clown Loaches- Chromobotia macracanthus (5 to 8")
4 Red Fin Bala Sharks- Cyclocheilichthys janthochir (5")
1 Lutino Oscar- Astronotus ocellatus (5")
1 Green Texas- Herichthys carpintis (5")
1 Jack Dempsey- Rocio octofasciata (4")
1 Green Terror- Aequidens rivulatus (4")
1 Flagtail Prochilodus- Semaprochilodus insignis (8")
40 1" Arulius Barb fry living in my sump
In regards to your suggestion to use XP3s...
The top of my tank is over 7' high...an XP3 would be useless because it would not be able to overcome that much head pressure. Even an FX5 would struggle if not be complely useless trying to overcome 7' of head.
Have you ever used filter socks?
There is 2100GPH flowing through my sump. I keep the sump at about 50% full. So with 2100GPH, the sump is turned over about 28 times per hour. There is a good current in there and detritus does not collect in the left corner, as you incorrectly "guessed" that it would. The tank has been running for 1 year and I have never had to siphon detritus from the left side of the sump.
Have you ever used Matala sheets?
The Matala sheets are NOT for mechanical filtration; they are for additional biological filtration. In pond applications, they can be used as mechanical filtration to capture larger debris, but my aquarium does not have large debris like leaves, twigs, etc. The matala sheets would not capture anything that the filter socks had not already captured, so to say that since the bio balls are not in the "cleanest water" because they are not located after the matala sheets is once again incorrect. Matala sheets are very porous; they would do a very poor job of polishing water, but they are a decent biological media. You again provide your opinion, when it's clear you don't know what you are talking about.
I have already stated that bio-balls are more effective when used as a wet/dry "trickle" application, but I have also already explained how a wet dry in a cold environment would essentially act like a chiller and I don't want that. I would probably have to use an extra pump to trickle water over the bio-balls. If I was like RedBelly and trying to keep an Arapaima in a 300G tank, maybe I would need the extra bio filtration and it would be worth it to run a trickle over the bio-balls, but as you mentioned, I don't have "Monster fish," and I don't like giving extra money to the utility company, so I will keep them submerged.
If I was keeping a huge bioload, I would probably completely fill the last section of the sump with Pond Matrix to maximize the waters exposure to the bio-media to be on the safe side. But again, I'm not overstocking or keeping huge fish, so wasting money on more bio-media would be pretty stupid. Even if I filled the entire 150G sump with Pond Matrix, the amount of Nitrosomonas bacteria would be exactly the same, all else being equal. I believe you are underestimating how much surface area I have for Nitrosomonas with my bio-balls, Matala mats, Pond Matrix and even the gravel in my display. But to prove that to you, I would have to buy some of your fish when they outgrow your tank and I don't want to do that.
I understand you got your first sump a few months ago and you are excited about them, which is great. I appreciate the fact you are concerned that others may see my filtration and think it will work for them when it may not. With that logic, you should also "attempt" to warn others anytime you see that someone is running an XP3 on their 100G anglefish tank that it might not be sufficient for someone keeping monsterfish. Catch my drift? I never said my filtration would work for keeping RTC, PIMAs aros, Bass etc- although I believe you are underestimating its capabilities, that's not what I designed it for.
Having said that, I would suggest that anyone having water quality issues using my design take a look at their stocking levels as opposed to their filtration. Overstocking leads to issues that even the most efficient filters cannot correct. You may end up like some people on here spending more time doing water changes (ex- 80% changes, 3 times per week) and pulling dead fish out of your tanks than actually enjoying them.
But hey, different strokes for different folks.
very nice. i was thinking of upgrading my wetdry / filter pad setup with a more modern but seems overkill now, i change my fiter pads every other day, drip system, vacuam gravel once a week (switching to pfs soon) and its basically very low maintenance low tech
Good explanation...
If you don't clean out ANY mechanical filter material in ANY filter you're going to have problems with muck ending up where it shouldn't. Show me a sump with filter socks where the muck doesn't end up in the bio media if the socks overflow....
If you don't clean out ANY mechanical filter material in ANY filter you're going to have problems with muck ending up where it shouldn't. Show me a sump with filter socks where the muck doesn't end up in the bio media if the socks overflow....
I checked out your blog. Your fish look great! I would keep doing whatever you're doing cuz it's working.
That would be a magic sump! I would pay lots of money to never have to clean another nasty filter sock- lol
But honestly, I think she's upset about some posts I made in another thread (I offended her idol), so she's trying to pick my sump apart. She's grasping at straws at this point, so using logic won't do any good.
If you think the fish you keep somehow makes you macho...you've got more problems than just not understanding filtration.
All the best.
I laughed. I disagree with you about the sump (it may not be the most efficient use of space, but it's plenty adequate) and think this is a juvenile comment (not the least because I keep some of the same fish), but I still laughed.
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