A new motoro owner, please share your experience

[md1017]

Crazy. Goldfish and stingrays together...I never knew this combo would work.

Oh please stop teasing Mr Lupin

Yeah I was playing dumb, thought they would be ok as stingrays are bottom dwellers and eat worms...duh...

Eaten and mutilated 4 goldfish, and I just found 1 goldfish...still alive..but lost an eye....feel sad tho...still eating well. Amazing little creature.

 

[Lupin]

Yikes! What a shame the combo doesn't really work well. You have lots of nice fancies though especially that plump "black" (seems going gray/bronze hence the quotation marks) ranchu.

 

[md1017]

Yikes! What a shame the combo doesn't really work well. You have lots of nice fancies though especially that plump "black" (seems going gray/bronze hence the quotation marks) ranchu.

Yeah unfortunately they don't go too well together...and i think the reason why the 4 got eatn they were swimming too close to the rays and couldn't run away when the rays covered them with their huge disc cutting the daylight out of em.

And also The fancies swim too slow...and sometime one of them swim upside down and floating (too much air in the big belly?) I have to push him in the water and there he goes swimming away while trying hard to stay in the water.

Thought the fish was sick...I asked my father in law if it's sick swimming upside down like that...he said: It's normal...he's having fun. I said...no way! He's sick...he said...bulls$@# look...he fliped the one swimming upside down floating and push him back and the little goldfish swam away and then my father in law threw some pellets, and the upside down fish was furiously eating (i should say "making a good effort to chase the floating pellets)...when fish eats...so furiously...they re healthy right?

 

[Lupin]

The floaty issues are contributed by high nitrate, starchy foods or floating foods. It's for this reason we don't encourage flakes and floating pellets, and even foods that are high in starch for fancy goldfish or those with extremely round bodies.

They do not have a stomach. They rely entirely on their enzymes and bacterial flora to digest the foods for them so you really need to give them only small meals rather than let them gorge as much as they can eat otherwise they will simply pollute the water much faster with undigested portions of foods. Better multiple small meals a day than a few large ones. Adults can do well with simply two small meals a day.

 

[md1017]

The floaty issues are contributed by high nitrate, starchy foods or floating foods. It's for this reason we don't encourage flakes and floating pellets, and even foods that are high in starch for fancy goldfish or those with extremely round bodies.

They do not have a stomach. They rely entirely on their enzymes and bacterial flora to digest the foods for them so you really need to give them only small meals rather than let them gorge as much as they can eat otherwise they will simply pollute the water much faster with undigested portions of foods. Better multiple small meals a day than a few large ones. Adults can do well with simply two small meals a day.

Oh great info...will pass it on to my father in law. I think that's why he put such a huge filter for them. I know that these fish poop alot too. Hmmm nitrate...yeah that's always be a problem isnt it? It's very hard to drop nitrate content in fish pond. Just took water test. Amonia, nitrit and PH are good but yes Nitrate is bit high. Funny thing is that the water is clear not greenish. It's easier to drop nitrate in aquarium I think.

Will drain 30% the water tomorrow and see how it goes.

Would the rays be affected with high nitrate content? As far as the water in this pond has never been changed intentionally. The pond has an automatic tap that opens up when the water level goes down due to evaporation.

As far as I know he feeds em once only in the morning but yes with pellets. So what other food beside pellets can we feed em? Thought pellets are the only gold fish food.

Ah good place here...more knowledge. Looking for some infos about rays...and get a goldfish knowledge as a bonus. Love this site

 

[Lupin]

High nitrate will actually affect all fish in general. The only reason in some cases the fish are able to tolerate the high nitrate is because they have been adapted to the gradual increase of nitrate over time, however this can eventually lead to stunting in young fish and intoxication in some cases. When you do a large water change, the nitrate suddenly drops thus shocking all fish as they fail to adapt quickly to the extreme change in their environment. This scenario is considered an Old Tank Syndrome (OTS). This is extremely dangerous to all fish.

If your pond never received water changes (albeit actually replacing a portion of the old water with new fresh one instead of just replacing the evaporated portion with new one), then you really must do small water changes at this time to minimize possible deaths otherwise you risk almost all your fish at once especially the stingrays. Do it on a daily basis. Start with at least 15% of the water replaced, then add 5% per day until you can manage to keep the nitrate below 20 ppm. 40 is the maximum safest but the lower the nitrate, the better for everyone. Even fancy goldfish are unfortunately extremely sensitive to high nitrate, ironic to their contribution to bioload.

Oh, I use gel foods for the goldfish. Since they're prone to floaty issues, the choice of foods are often limited to particular commercial pellets (most especially Hikari Lionhead), gel foods, live fresh foods and vegetables. Don't use blender in doing gel foods as they inject air in the gelatin and cause the food to float instead. Try spoons instead.

Here's the link to gel food recipes.
http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3629

I dunno though if the stingrays in particular have different nutritional requirements. Maybe the stingray enthusiasts can comment on this one and we'll adjust the recipe to accommodate both well. The only ingredient that I am not sure would work for rays are the mackerel/tuna/sardines. I've used the gel foods on other tropical fish with no issues, mostly plecos.

 

[md1017]

High nitrate will actually affect all fish in general. The only reason in some cases the fish are able to tolerate the high nitrate is because they have been adapted to the gradual increase of nitrate over time, however this can eventually lead to stunting in young fish and intoxication in some cases. When you do a large water change, the nitrate suddenly drops thus shocking all fish as they fail to adapt quickly to the extreme change in their environment. This scenario is considered an Old Tank Syndrome (OTS). This is extremely dangerous to all fish.

You're extremely right I think. I dont have much experience in fishkeeping in a pond. The original reason why I kept my rays in this pond is because I dont have the tank for them yet plus I think it's better to leave them there in the pond. (took a while to get a "yes" from my father in law cus its his pond, but after seeing the rays he loves them ) In a tank, it's easier to control the water and yes this pond has been established for around 20 years. I did read about OTS somewhere awhile ago but was ignorant cus I thought my fish are ok.

If your pond never received water changes (albeit actually replacing a portion of the old water with new fresh one instead of just replacing the evaporated portion with new one), then you really must do small water changes at this time to minimize possible deaths otherwise you risk almost all your fish at once especially the stingrays. Do it on a daily basis. Start with at least 15% of the water replaced, then add 5% per day until you can manage to keep the nitrate below 20 ppm. 40 is the maximum safest but the lower the nitrate, the better for everyone. Even fancy goldfish are unfortunately extremely sensitive to high nitrate, ironic to their contribution to bioload.

Thanks for the suggestion will do 15% tomorrow.

Oh, I use gel foods for the goldfish. Since they're prone to floaty issues, the choice of foods are often limited to particular commercial pellets (most especially Hikari Lionhead), gel foods, live fresh foods and vegetables. Don't use blender in doing gel foods as they inject air in the gelatin and cause the food to float instead. Try spoons instead.

Here's the link to gel food recipes.
http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3629

umm...don't know if he actually wanna do this as this means more work for him...he's busy with business and all...but I'll tell him anyway. Thanks for the info...interesting.

I dunno though if the stingrays in particular have different nutritional requirements. Maybe the stingray enthusiasts can comment on this one and we'll adjust the recipe to accommodate both well. The only ingredient that I am not sure would work for rays are the mackerel/tuna/sardines. I've used the gel foods on other tropical fish with no issues, mostly plecos.

With my L333 colony, I feed them hikari carnivore pellets. Cost a fortune tho. But they love em. And frozen blood worms in cubes. I think I will stick to prawns, little fish called selar, and worms. How bout boiled mussels?

 

[Lupin]

Mussels are fine.

 

[gobudi]

Yup! Got them from Anthony from Puri Indah. 1 male and 3 female. Bit hard to take close up pics now as they are in the pond. Are you from Jakarta too?

Yap I m from jakarta. I know him, so i think I already saw your fish, my house near his house.

 

[md1017]

Yap I m from jakarta. I know him, so i think I already saw your fish, my house near his house.

cool! Very nice to meet you. One day we'll meet up. Anthony just came to my house today. He brought me a new female motoro NOw gotta persuade him to sell me his other male lol ANyway...its very nice to meet you again!