AAP custom fish food experience

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RD. said:
IMO Paradigm food is a farce, and so is the person that originally created it. His background in the science of fish nutrition is zero, most of his "science" is made up as he goes along.

I posted the following in a past discussion ......


https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...-only-eats-pellets.660076/page-2#post-7433989

Personally I would not feed my fish any food that had any form of terrestrial based flour as the main ingredient. Pea, soybean, corn, wheat, whatever, pretty much all the same in my book. Paradigm is a farce in my opinion. Terrestrial based flour as a main ingredient, 17-19% crude fiber, and a bunch of nonsense to market it. The following is a partial response that I made to Clay a couple of years back on another forum, after he posted about the virtues of a high fiber diet, for fish.




My response ..........

But I think you missed the most obvious point, that being that most manufacturers don't use wheat flour as the main ingredient in their food, unlike your use of pea flour, which in the formula posted previously did in fact list pea flour as the main ingredient of the food. I honestly don't care what type of flour it is, I personally don't want to see flour as the main ingredient in anything that I feed my fish - but maybe that's just me?


With regards to fiber .....

All plant ingredients contain a certain amount of fiber in the form of cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin along with other complex carbohydrates, that are generally indigestible to fish. Fiber adds physical bulk to the feeds, and a certain amount of fiber in food permits better binding and possibly with some diets helps move food through the alimentary canal. It has been noted (De Silva and Anderson (1995) that it was not desirable to have a fiber content above 8-12% in diets designed for any species of fish, as the increase in fiber content would consequently result in the decrease of the quality of an unusable nutrient in the diet.

When fiber content is excessive, it results in lower digestibility of nutrients, and an increase in fecal matter. Therefore fiber content should be limited in order to improve overall digestibility of the food. If food moves too quickly through the digestive tract, nutrients may not be fully absorbed. Most commercial feed formulations designed for tropical species of fish contain 3-5% fiber content.

The following quote is from an article by Frank A. Chapman, associate professor and Extension aquaculture specialist, Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences; and Richard Miles, professor, Department of Animal Sciences, University of Florida.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa159


“Typical values for crude protein in fish production feeds normally range from 36% to 42%, for lipid 6% to 15%, and for crude fiber 3% to 5%. Feeds with high protein and lipid content coupled with low fiber are generally considered to be of higher quality than those with a high fiber content. Fish have no specific requirement for fiber, and feeds with high fiber content (higher than 8%) are of low feeding value simply because of the diluting effect of fiber in the diet.”


Or you can believe some guy who makes a food called Paradigm ........


BTW - Corn Bran is GRAIN.

End of the fish food debate, not likely. lol
Click to expand...
I have seen you talk of which foods you dismiss multiple times but haven't seen which brand or brands you endorse. Could you give a quick list of what you like or what you are currently feeding yourself? Not trying to be smart, just curious what you are doing so that maybe I can emulate it in my fish room as well.
 
This discussion isn't about me, or what I feed my fish. I'm just trying to keep things real regarding this specific food, and the marketing comments used to promote it. When I first stumbled upon Clay Neighbours back in 2010 he didn't even understand that carbohydrates are used by most fish food manufacturers as a lower cost source of energy, so that the more expensive protein and lipids, are not catabolized for energy. I would post a link to that discussion but the MFK filters won't allow me. Pretty funny stuff considering that he went from that, to a self proclaimed fish food guru. lol

So now AAP has partnered up with him, big deal ........
 
RD. said:
IMO Paradigm food is a farce, and so is the person that originally created it. His background in the science of fish nutrition is zero, most of his "science" is made up as he goes along.

I posted the following in a past discussion ......


https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...-only-eats-pellets.660076/page-2#post-7433989

Personally I would not feed my fish any food that had any form of terrestrial based flour as the main ingredient. Pea, soybean, corn, wheat, whatever, pretty much all the same in my book. Paradigm is a farce in my opinion. Terrestrial based flour as a main ingredient, 17-19% crude fiber, and a bunch of nonsense to market it. The following is a partial response that I made to Clay a couple of years back on another forum, after he posted about the virtues of a high fiber diet, for fish.




My response ..........

But I think you missed the most obvious point, that being that most manufacturers don't use wheat flour as the main ingredient in their food, unlike your use of pea flour, which in the formula posted previously did in fact list pea flour as the main ingredient of the food. I honestly don't care what type of flour it is, I personally don't want to see flour as the main ingredient in anything that I feed my fish - but maybe that's just me?


With regards to fiber .....

All plant ingredients contain a certain amount of fiber in the form of cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin along with other complex carbohydrates, that are generally indigestible to fish. Fiber adds physical bulk to the feeds, and a certain amount of fiber in food permits better binding and possibly with some diets helps move food through the alimentary canal. It has been noted (De Silva and Anderson (1995) that it was not desirable to have a fiber content above 8-12% in diets designed for any species of fish, as the increase in fiber content would consequently result in the decrease of the quality of an unusable nutrient in the diet.

When fiber content is excessive, it results in lower digestibility of nutrients, and an increase in fecal matter. Therefore fiber content should be limited in order to improve overall digestibility of the food. If food moves too quickly through the digestive tract, nutrients may not be fully absorbed. Most commercial feed formulations designed for tropical species of fish contain 3-5% fiber content.

The following quote is from an article by Frank A. Chapman, associate professor and Extension aquaculture specialist, Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences; and Richard Miles, professor, Department of Animal Sciences, University of Florida.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa159


“Typical values for crude protein in fish production feeds normally range from 36% to 42%, for lipid 6% to 15%, and for crude fiber 3% to 5%. Feeds with high protein and lipid content coupled with low fiber are generally considered to be of higher quality than those with a high fiber content. Fish have no specific requirement for fiber, and feeds with high fiber content (higher than 8%) are of low feeding value simply because of the diluting effect of fiber in the diet.”


Or you can believe some guy who makes a food called Paradigm ........


BTW - Corn Bran is GRAIN.

End of the fish food debate, not likely. lol
Click to expand...
Please name a fish food that doesn't have some sort of flour in it. Would love to hear about it. I know your big on nls and that has most the things in it that youre not a fan of that this food has.
 
I have become a fan of northfin recently, I think the ingredients are as good as nls but my fish seem to prefer it.
 
Fishking .... I think that you need to reread my comment, you clearly missed the key points.

Dan .... I have been feeding Northfin for a couple years now, experimented with it exclusively in some tanks. My results were positive. My only issue with NF, and for me it's a pretty big issue, is that the company has made some pretty bold statements regarding their use of ethoxyquin, or any form of preservative.

From their website:

"NorthFin Premium Fish Foods does not use any preservatives or harmful chemicals to preserve its product line.

The combination of certain ingredients/vitamins, along with the drying process itself allows the foods to be naturally preserved."

http://www.canadian-aquatic-feed.com/?page_id=34

For myself, that just isn't logical. Sans preservatives, fish food will soon go rancid, and most certainly won't have a shelf life of 2-3 yrs, so WTF?
Now I had only my common sense, many years of experience in this field, and scientific logic to go by, until a few months back when I stumbled upon some lab results posted online by an interested party.

Not only does NF apparently use preservatives, they are apparently using ethoxyquin, and apparently at rather elevated levels. Levels that I believe in one product, was more than double the AAFCO recommended maximum of 150 ppm.

Whoa! I have seen other reports as well, since removed from some website owners that were concerned about legal backlash. Kmuda from Oscar forum promised to send in his own samples, yet thus far I haven't seen those results.



northfin1.jpg
 
Perhaps Darius from Northfin will pop in to explain how such high levels of ethoxyquin are showing up in a food that is marketed by his company as being preservative free, and ethoxyquin free.

Then Clay can come by and post links to all of his peer reviewed research that has taken place over the past few years. Especially the research regarding high fiber diets (19%), and prove to everyone why the two experts from the University of Florida, and their peers, have it all wrong.

And perhaps while we are all waiting for that some pigs will fly by.......
 
This is interesting. RD. RD. Is there any good article for fish nutrition on a more basic level or in laymans terms? I'm quite interested but I'm still fairly new to biology. Sorry for the derail

That stuff sounds too glitzy to be true
 
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