AHHHH...losing Demasoni left and right!!!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
lol scott-i love africans, but to me they are just very finicky and seem to die easily-and ive been a fishkeeper for over 15 yrs and do waterchanges every other weekend religiously. demansonis are one of my favorites-i love their character, and youre right-as far as africans go they arent aggressive (compared to the Kenyi female i had-she beat up all the fish in my 180 ).

i live in a town with only one fishstore, and i had to order food online-dr fosters and smith, or ebay was where i found african food.. and like i said, make sure to mix spirunlina (found on ebay) and veggies.. and once you get the bloat under control i would look at getting a few more fish in there..i loved mixing demansoni with yellow labs, rusties.. etc.
 
I'm curious....what is the protein content of NLS? I've been searching around and found a off brand food....with a very attractive price with these ingredients.

[FONT=Berlin Sans demi fb, sans-serif]Ingredients [/FONT]
[FONT=Berlin Sans demi fb, sans-serif] Spirulina, Fish Meal, Wheat Flour,, Green Pea Powder, Glycerin, Fish Oil Stabilized, Wheat Gluten, Brewers Yeast, Soy Lecithin, Zucchini Powder, Carrot Powder, Garlic Powder, Astaxanthin with Vitamins and Minerals

[/FONT] [FONT=Berlin Sans demi fb, sans-serif] Analysis [/FONT]
[FONT=Berlin Sans demi fb, sans-serif] 29% Protein
12% Fat
2% Fiber
22% Moisture
[/FONT]

Thoughts?

Scott
 
Scott - the fat content of that food is rather high, at least for mbuna. As a general rule you want to stay under 10% crude fat. The crude protein content of NLS Cichlid Formula is 34%, crude fat 5%.

Protein itself does not cause bloat, unless that protein is overly difficult for the fish to digest. (such as grains & grain by-products)
I've raised numerous juvenile mbuna on diets consisting of 50% crude protein, and have never once fed any of my mbuna veggies of any type. That would include some of the most herbivorous species of mbuna in the lake, such as Tropheops macrophthalmus. IMO the vast majority of 'bloat' cases involving mbuna are not caused by dietary issues, but by other forms of stress which cause an unhealthy environment for the fish, weakening their immune systems. All it takes is one weak fish to get sick, and your entire tank can start to go south within a few days.
This is something that requires treatment immediately, or it can spread like wildfire.

Also, 'bloat' is not a disease, it is but a symptom, and usually when one sees a bloated fish it's in the final stages of the disease. What you are most likely experiencing is spironucleus.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php


At this point I think that treating with Jungle Parasite Clear or Clout would be the way to go. When stress levels increase in cichlids it's usually followed by an increase in intestinal flagellates. You need to treat the entire tank in order to destroy any/all potential pathogens present. Spironucleus can be transmitted via contaminated fecal matter, so you must treat the entire tank, and not just remove the fish that already are showing symptoms.

The following quote is from Ad Konings "Back to Nature Guide" to Malawi Cichlids 2nd. edition.

"Malawi Bloat is believed to be caused by a flagellate (a unicellular animal, a protozoan). This flagellate occurs in the intestines of all Malawi cichlids but normally causes no harm since the fish's immune system can cope with it. However, in a stressful situation such a balance may disappear and the fish may lose its resistance against an outbreak of a flagellate "attack". This often leads to bloat."

..... which is along the exact same lines as what the authors in the link above state about spironucleus.

In simple terms, in 'healthy discus' S. vortens is commonly found in the flagellated stage in the lumen of the upper intestine, where it remains, controlled by the immune system of the fish. In stressed discus, the immune system is placed under greater strain, and the organism, in theory, multiplies unchecked causing considerable localised damage. Once the damage is severe enough the intestinal lining is penetrated and the S. vortens enters the blood causing systemic and organ infections.



HTH
 
NLS should arrive today as well as the rest of the meds I need to finish treatment of the tank. It's so much cheaper to buy them online rather than locally, not to mention nice to be so close that I get my orders next day.

Scott
 
I stopped treatment a day early as the fish were starting to tear up their mouths trying to scrape algae off the rocks. Fish activity in the tank has picked back up and everybody but 2 are looking good. I'll keep a close eye on those 2 peacocks to make sure they pull through.

I do have one question though. I starting running carbon today to pull the meds back out of the tank, how long would that take? I've got it sitting under the intake to my wet/dry, so it's seeing a lot of flow.

Thanks everyone,

Scott
 
I've kept and bred a lot of Dems over the last few years. My guess at this point is the food is a major factor. Considering the water parameters, the fact you did a water change and they are still dying off slowly I'm not thinking it is so much a water quality problem. However......have you added anything new to the tank in terms of decor? Any new rocks or driftwood? I dont think it is a toxicity thing however since in my experience those events usually results in more sudden and large die offs.

Good luck, it sure sucks when these things happen.
 
I'm pretty sure it was bloat. I've stopped losing fish, and I've still got a ton of fry left in the tank. so I'll just have to grow them back out. I've switched to NLS, everyone is feeding well and looking good. Thanks everyone for all the help.......it's nice not having to stress about losing fish once again.:)

Here is what is left of my stock

4 Adult Demasoni
30+ juvie Demasoni
3 Labidochromis Caeruleus
1 Copadichromis Borleyi Kadango
1 Eureka Red Peacock
1 Iodotropheus Sprengerae
1 Metriaclima Greshakei
1 OB Peacock
1 Clown Pleco
1 Bristle Nose Pleco
3 Clown Loach

In all I lost about
7 Adult Demasoni
1 Copadichromis Borleyi Kadango
1 Nagara Flametail Peacock

Thanks again for the help everyone,

Scott
 
Glad to hear everything is working out!
 
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