So with an ammonia of 3ppm from the well and a PH at 8, assuming water temperature in the tank is 75F when mixed with well water, (using the calculator), the 3ppm total ammonia is turning into 0.075 ppm of toxic ammonia (much higher than the safe level of 0.02ppm). No wonder the datnoid is freaking out. If the temperature is higher than 75F than there is more toxic ammonia.
Ammonia in well water
- Thread starter Vampire fish
- Start date
If the incoming water is high in ammonia (regardless of source) then three possible solutions available are;
1) Do smaller water changes so your tanks filtration can cope. This can be done more frequently if you want the same total volume.
2) Chemically bind the ammonia with an additive. There is a multitude of commercially available choices or you could make up your own.
3) Store the water in a holding container with a biological filter or plants. Even a day or two is probably sufficient.
There may be other solutions but any of these three will solve your issue.
1) Do smaller water changes so your tanks filtration can cope. This can be done more frequently if you want the same total volume.
2) Chemically bind the ammonia with an additive. There is a multitude of commercially available choices or you could make up your own.
3) Store the water in a holding container with a biological filter or plants. Even a day or two is probably sufficient.
There may be other solutions but any of these three will solve your issue.
Yea im only doing smaller water changes now. If I need a big one I have a little storage container to prefill
Seachem Ammonia Alert detects toxic ammonia in the water. It might be good to have for your storage container as you prep the water. Just simply look at the indicator, no waiting around for a total ammonia test. It takes about 15 minutes for the color to change, so a circulation pump or at least an airstone is required in the storage container.
Sounds like it is ammonia indeed that shocks your fish. A drip continuous WC could be your best solution with a huge side benefit of never having to lift a bucket or hook up a siphon or worry about a WC much.
As Rocksor showed a 1 ppm ammonia means 0.025 ppm harmful ammonia at your pH and average temp, so the 1 ppm level you don't have to worry about. anything higher - yes, it is a problem.
Also, one could add hydrogen peroxide (bleach would be more dangerous if left over) to oxidize the ammonia chemically. Excess of hydrogen peroxide is easy to get rid of as it decomposes quickly and obviously (bubbles of oxygen can be observed) in the presence of metals, like iron, that act as catalysts of the decomposition.
As Rocksor showed a 1 ppm ammonia means 0.025 ppm harmful ammonia at your pH and average temp, so the 1 ppm level you don't have to worry about. anything higher - yes, it is a problem.
Would just letting the water sit and age for some time get rid of ammonia? IDK, like the ozone can oxidize it slowly? Alternatively one can install an ozonator and bubble through the water until ammonia test / alert reads zero.
Also, one could add hydrogen peroxide (bleach would be more dangerous if left over) to oxidize the ammonia chemically. Excess of hydrogen peroxide is easy to get rid of as it decomposes quickly and obviously (bubbles of oxygen can be observed) in the presence of metals, like iron, that act as catalysts of the decomposition.
Multiple ways to remove ammonia from water storage efficiently but just letting it sit /age would take too long unless biofilm was encouraged.
The simplest & cost effective is zeolite chips-sand substrate.
If your in a hurry with large volumes to process then I'd chlorine bomb and chemically neutralise the chlorine or let the water sit a few days as chlorine is unstable.
Floating plants if there is some light.
A simple sponge filter would do.
Ammonia in well water? Is that from organic matter somewhere in the water table?
The simplest & cost effective is zeolite chips-sand substrate.
If your in a hurry with large volumes to process then I'd chlorine bomb and chemically neutralise the chlorine or let the water sit a few days as chlorine is unstable.
Floating plants if there is some light.
A simple sponge filter would do.
Ammonia in well water? Is that from organic matter somewhere in the water table?
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I am seeing a bunch or incorrect or incomplete information in this thread.
First lets cover ammonia. The calculator which was linked in this thread if for Ammonia-Nitrogen (or ASmmonia-N). This means it is being measured using the nitrogen scale. This only looks at the N part of NH3 or NH4. It is the same for notrote and nitrate. the result is that 1 ppm of ammonia = 1 ppm of nitrite = 1 ppm of nitrate. Most, hobby test kits measure using the Total Ion Scale. This means they count the other parts of NH3/NH4, NO2 and NO3. The total ion scales counts both the N and also the Hs or Os.
Next, most hobby kits measure Total Ammonia (TA). this is the sum of NH3 and NH4. It is also important to understand that it is NH3 which is highly toxic. Some will say that NH3 is 100 times more toxic that NH4. So, when we get an ammonia reading on an API type test kit we are seeing TA and what we really need to know is how much of that TA is in the form of NH3.
Once in water. ammonia (NH3) or ammonium (NH4) will find their balance based on the pH and the temp. of the water. However, pH is much more important here. Using an ammonia calculator online is a good idea, however, this one is a much better one than what was posted earlier in this thread. This is the one I have used for many years. it can be used with either the Nitrogen or the Total Ion scale and in fresh, brackish or salt.
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
The fact that salt content matters and because there is a water softener involved which uses salt, it is not possible to calculate the actual numbers without having a measure of salinity.
However, using this data from an earlier post in this thread:
So with an ammonia of 3ppm from the well and a PH at 8, assuming water temperature in the tank is 75F when mixed with well water, (using the calculator), the 3ppm total ammonia is turning into 0.075 ppm of toxic ammonia (much higher than the safe level of 0.02ppm).
The actual level of NH3 is 0.1513 ppm. Next, the danger line for pretty much anything we realistically will have in tanks is 0.05 ppm of NH3. (This comes from the Merck Veterinary Manual.) No properly cycled tank should ever have that amount of NH3. Moreover, even though NH4 is way less toxic, it is not harmless. My cutoff level for TA with and NH4 at 5 of under would be 2.0 ppm. And this would only be for a shorter term such as a couple of weeks with a cycling issue. Moreover, one must always monitor fish and use their behavior as the overriding indication that ammonia is a problem no matter how low the level.
Next, most dechlorinators today handle chloramine. They do this in two ways. First they break it down into its two components- chlorine and ammonia. Then they neutralize the chlorine and they convert the ammonia into NH4. here are some quotes from the FAQ section for prime on the SeaChem site:
Forget the Ammonia Alert as it is too slow. A total Ion kit and the site I linked for calculating NH3 are faster and the SeaChem Multi Test is fast as well.
However, well water should not have chlorine or chloramine in it. How are you having chloramine in your well water? It should not have ammonia either. So I see the first issue being to determine why the tap has an ammonia reading. There are some things that can cause false reading on ammonia tests. iron is one. Another source could be fertilizers from adjacent farming. Then there is the possibility of bad testing. An expired kit, testing error etc.
Moreover, most water softeners add salt to the water in an exchange process. Many fw fish do not like salt. Also, your nitrate levels are too high- most shoot for 20 ppm and below.
Finally, on the Total Ion scale, 1 ppm of ammonia can produce a maximum of about 3.44 ppm of nitrate on the same scale. Working backwards this means the nitrate levels in your tank do not come from the tap ammonia, they come from the fish and from organic matter in the tanks breaking down. If your fish produce 1 ppm of ammonia a day and other waste does the same, in one week they add 14 ppm of ammonia and that could add a max. of 48 ppm of nitrate. If one stocks heavily and/or changes to little water, nitrate can build up fast.
I have well water, it is our well and not a shared one. I have used it in tanks since Jan 2001. It is very nice quality water and I do not treat it. I do keep wild altum angels and do alter the water parameters in their tank. I can tell you this is not easy or simple and I do not suggest that most in the hobby should get into this sort of thing. For one I have a $250 digital monitor for the tank and for batching changing water. nexy I have an RO/DI unit and make pure water which I then mix with my tap. You can not simply change pH, the chemistry is more complex than add a bit of acid.
First lets cover ammonia. The calculator which was linked in this thread if for Ammonia-Nitrogen (or ASmmonia-N). This means it is being measured using the nitrogen scale. This only looks at the N part of NH3 or NH4. It is the same for notrote and nitrate. the result is that 1 ppm of ammonia = 1 ppm of nitrite = 1 ppm of nitrate. Most, hobby test kits measure using the Total Ion Scale. This means they count the other parts of NH3/NH4, NO2 and NO3. The total ion scales counts both the N and also the Hs or Os.
Next, most hobby kits measure Total Ammonia (TA). this is the sum of NH3 and NH4. It is also important to understand that it is NH3 which is highly toxic. Some will say that NH3 is 100 times more toxic that NH4. So, when we get an ammonia reading on an API type test kit we are seeing TA and what we really need to know is how much of that TA is in the form of NH3.
Once in water. ammonia (NH3) or ammonium (NH4) will find their balance based on the pH and the temp. of the water. However, pH is much more important here. Using an ammonia calculator online is a good idea, however, this one is a much better one than what was posted earlier in this thread. This is the one I have used for many years. it can be used with either the Nitrogen or the Total Ion scale and in fresh, brackish or salt.
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
The fact that salt content matters and because there is a water softener involved which uses salt, it is not possible to calculate the actual numbers without having a measure of salinity.
However, using this data from an earlier post in this thread:
So with an ammonia of 3ppm from the well and a PH at 8, assuming water temperature in the tank is 75F when mixed with well water, (using the calculator), the 3ppm total ammonia is turning into 0.075 ppm of toxic ammonia (much higher than the safe level of 0.02ppm).
The actual level of NH3 is 0.1513 ppm. Next, the danger line for pretty much anything we realistically will have in tanks is 0.05 ppm of NH3. (This comes from the Merck Veterinary Manual.) No properly cycled tank should ever have that amount of NH3. Moreover, even though NH4 is way less toxic, it is not harmless. My cutoff level for TA with and NH4 at 5 of under would be 2.0 ppm. And this would only be for a shorter term such as a couple of weeks with a cycling issue. Moreover, one must always monitor fish and use their behavior as the overriding indication that ammonia is a problem no matter how low the level.
Next, most dechlorinators today handle chloramine. They do this in two ways. First they break it down into its two components- chlorine and ammonia. Then they neutralize the chlorine and they convert the ammonia into NH4. here are some quotes from the FAQ section for prime on the SeaChem site:
Forget the Ammonia Alert as it is too slow. A total Ion kit and the site I linked for calculating NH3 are faster and the SeaChem Multi Test is fast as well.
However, well water should not have chlorine or chloramine in it. How are you having chloramine in your well water? It should not have ammonia either. So I see the first issue being to determine why the tap has an ammonia reading. There are some things that can cause false reading on ammonia tests. iron is one. Another source could be fertilizers from adjacent farming. Then there is the possibility of bad testing. An expired kit, testing error etc.
Moreover, most water softeners add salt to the water in an exchange process. Many fw fish do not like salt. Also, your nitrate levels are too high- most shoot for 20 ppm and below.
Finally, on the Total Ion scale, 1 ppm of ammonia can produce a maximum of about 3.44 ppm of nitrate on the same scale. Working backwards this means the nitrate levels in your tank do not come from the tap ammonia, they come from the fish and from organic matter in the tanks breaking down. If your fish produce 1 ppm of ammonia a day and other waste does the same, in one week they add 14 ppm of ammonia and that could add a max. of 48 ppm of nitrate. If one stocks heavily and/or changes to little water, nitrate can build up fast.
I have well water, it is our well and not a shared one. I have used it in tanks since Jan 2001. It is very nice quality water and I do not treat it. I do keep wild altum angels and do alter the water parameters in their tank. I can tell you this is not easy or simple and I do not suggest that most in the hobby should get into this sort of thing. For one I have a $250 digital monitor for the tank and for batching changing water. nexy I have an RO/DI unit and make pure water which I then mix with my tap. You can not simply change pH, the chemistry is more complex than add a bit of acid.
Im pretty sure all tap water contains some ammonia. Facilities put in to do something with chloramine. My well doesnt contain chlorine or chloramine. My well water is around 7.5 ph. Watersofteners only reduce water hardness by cation exchange. I dont drink salt water.
I plan to just do smaller more consistent water changes. If I ever need to do a large one I have my bin and will do my best with phosphate remover.
