ammonia spike and new fish.

[Joshuakahan]

while continuing to do water changes? I had stability but i'm pretty sure I tossed that stuff.

Water changes will only slow the process, if it was mine, I’d not do WCs and do Stability and Prime every morning. Since your tank is already cycled, it should only take a few days but I’d do two weeks to be safe.Stability seeds and prime takes away the toxic effects

Really , any brand of bacteria will work

 

[milkman407]

Water changes will only slow the process, if it was mine, I’d not do WCs and do Stability and Prime every morning. Since your tank is already cycled, it should only take a few days but I’d do two weeks to be safe.Stability seeds and prime takes away the toxic effects

Really , any brand of bacteria will work

Guess I need to find the stability and hope I didn't throw it away.

 

[Joshuakahan]

Guess I need to find the stability and hope I didn't throw it away.

I’d just get new stuff, I’m not sure how long it lasts unless it has an expiration date on it

 

[milkman407]

ugh, I hate that I did this. the most friendly little datnoid of the batch just died. I'd have though a loach maybe, but fml...

 

[esoxlucius]

Adding fish in the past to a much larger tank is one thing, where the extra volume of water helps dilute any spikes, but adding fish in a much smaller volume of water isn't so forgiving when any spikes start showing. But you realise this now, and I bet you're kicking yourself, especially as you've lost one of your dats.

As I see it, and the passing of the datnoid proves it somewhat, is that your earlier spikes, albeit small, have effected these young vulnerable fish. Even though your parameters may be settling down now, the damage has already been done in the early stages.

I just hope the rest of your young dats, and any other stock in that tank, haven't been effected too badly by the earlier spikes. Good luck, and you'll certainly remember this in future.

 

[Midwater]

I added 7x 3-4" datnoids on friday the 18th, fed them some bloodworms ... ugh, I hate that I did this. the most friendly little datnoid of the batch just died.

IMO 3-4" dats need something more substantial than bloodworm.

 

[jjohnwm]

The generation time of the bacteria is very short; I've read many sources that indicate times as low as 12 - 24 hours...so with sufficient ammonia for them to utilize as food, the bacterial colony in your filter could double within a day, an double again the next. The real worry is how the fish will react to those short ammonia spikes until that happens, and unfortunately you have seen that in this case they don't react well.

Personally, if I had added those fish to that tank with that stocking, I would have avoided feeding at all for at least a couple days. This would have minimized ammonia production, slowed down the rate at which it increased and kept levels much lower. It might have also slowed down the rate at which the bacterial colony increased...but so what? Maybe 4, 5 or 6 days instead of just a couple? Big deal.

If feeding immediately is desired or required...and I have no experience with Dats, so I realize that perhaps small Dats such as yours might be better off without fasting even for a few days...then, IMHO, frozen blood worms would be just about the last thing I would choose. A cube of frozen blood worms contains a surprisingly small volume of actual solid worms...and a disturbing quantity of bloodworm juice. The freezing process ruptures every cell in the worms' body, releasing large amounts of fluid that contain nutrients which are completely unavailable to the fish; it's pollution, plain and simple, and contributes greatly to the production of ammonia.

Thaw the cube in a glass of water, let it settle, decant the top 99% of the water in the glass, and look at what's left. Your fish are eating that little bit...and they're breathing the rest.

Yeah, I will say that your tank is more crowded than I prefer; but even so, the additional biomass of those Dats sounds like it might be maybe between a third and a half of the existing biomass before the addition. With no feeding for a day or two and with that much new biomass added, I would expect the tank to "catch up" and stabilize within only a very few days.

 

[milkman407]

IMO 3-4" dats need something more substantial than bloodworm.

I agree, but I wasn't going to throw in cut shrimp for them, I needed something everyone would eat including the loaches. Also, I believe they were eating live prior to me getting them, so It was more trial and error to see what they would feed on.

The generation time of the bacteria is very short; I've read many sources that indicate times as low as 12 - 24 hours...so with sufficient ammonia for them to utilize as food, the bacterial colony in your filter could double within a day, an double again the next. The real worry is how the fish will react to those short ammonia spikes until that happens, and unfortunately you have seen that in this case they don't react well.

Personally, if I had added those fish to that tank with that stocking, I would have avoided feeding at all for at least a couple days. This would have minimized ammonia production, slowed down the rate at which it increased and kept levels much lower. It might have also slowed down the rate at which the bacterial colony increased...but so what? Maybe 4, 5 or 6 days instead of just a couple? Big deal.

If feeding immediately is desired or required...and I have no experience with Dats, so I realize that perhaps small Dats such as yours might be better off without fasting even for a few days...then, IMHO, frozen blood worms would be just about the last thing I would choose. A cube of frozen blood worms contains a surprisingly small volume of actual solid worms...and a disturbing quantity of bloodworm juice. The freezing process ruptures every cell in the worms' body, releasing large amounts of fluid that contain nutrients which are completely unavailable to the fish; it's pollution, plain and simple, and contributes greatly to the production of ammonia.

Thaw the cube in a glass of water, let it settle, decant the top 99% of the water in the glass, and look at what's left. Your fish are eating that little bit...and they're breathing the rest.

Yeah, I will say that your tank is more crowded than I prefer; but even so, the additional biomass of those Dats sounds like it might be maybe between a third and a half of the existing biomass before the addition. With no feeding for a day or two and with that much new biomass added, I would expect the tank to "catch up" and stabilize within only a very few days.

I agree, I believe I would have been better off just not feeding and not doing a W/C. Letting the tank go for 3-4 days to adjust, Because the second I noticed my ngt acting strangely I tested the waters and the ammonia was .25ppm and the nitrite was somewhat present, so the bacteria was doing it's job and this was on day 4 of having the the new fish, but caused me to panic and do a 50% w/c which I feel like slowed the entire process.


that being said, all the fish currently in the tank are acting normal, swimming to the front of the tank, clown loaches still active, leichardti still harassing everyone. Datnoids are all stable, I have noticed the larger oddball patterned datnoid chasing everyone and after examining the dead fish, one side of his body has damage, so I'm starting to think the paramaters/getting beat up was a mix cause of death.

Edit: I don't drop the bloodworms in the tank frozen, I thaw them out in a cup, then drain the water and use tweezers to put them in the tank. I've started doing this when I was feeding my baby golden fire eel

 

[Midwater]

I agree, but I wasn't going to throw in cut shrimp for them, I needed something everyone would eat including the loaches. Also, I believe they were eating live prior to me getting them, so It was more trial and error to see what they would feed on.

Loaches go for cut shrimp all right.

Try throwing in a few live ghost shrimp. Best thing to grow out small dats, the loaches love them too, and so does pretty much everyone else.

 

[milkman407]

Loaches go for cut shrimp all right.

Try throwing in a few live ghost shrimp. Best thing to grow out small dats, the loaches love them too, and so does pretty much everyone else.

I don't feed live and I appreciate the responses regarding food, but my last ST Wide bars were roughly 14-16" before I sold the group of them off. this was more directed to a "how long" thread. Much love though my man. The only reason I had the loaches ( not a huge fan of them ) is because I wanted something to group up and eat any food my arowana missed.