Andinoacara Stalsbergi. Info please?

[GrantA94]

As some of you may know I have a 135 gallon Peruvian Biotope. In which my focus will be a pair of Green Terrors, Now my original plan was to have some Silver/White Saums. Which I had seen at my lfs. So when it got around to purchasing they had sold out. However, they recommended a store which shipped and currently had them in stock. So I contacted them and asked them about them, to which I recieved the response that they were Silver/White Saums. (I had purchased from this store before, so had no reason to doubt them).

So I went ahead and ordered 4 of them (how many they had in stock), and they arrived today.

Now, I have always known about the 'True Green Terror' (Andinoacara Stalsbergi) -correct me if i'm wrong on the name- and they have always been very hard to obtain and very expensive. However, I wanted a change from Gold Saums so I decided upon the Whites/Silvers.

So they arrived today and I was 100% sure they weren't saums. So I rang the manager at the store and told him about the fish. To which he replied, 'Oh, so you're the one who bought the four F1 Andinoacara stalsbergii's. They've been here for ages and I thought they'd sell better than this. What's the problem?'. So, I explained the person I spoke to told me they were White/Silver Saums and he said that whomever I had spoken to was quite obviously misinformed and was either looking for a sale or was unaware of the two different species. Because he told me all the tanks are labelled with the names of the fish. He offered for me to return them at no extra cost becuase of the situation, however, I decided to keep them and have a go at these guys.

So, now I have four True Green Terrors, of which I know and can find very little information on. I gather they are more aggressive than their Saum counterparts and don't grow as large. I am aware of all the physical differences (as I can see them!) I.E inverted scale patern, thinner band of colour on the fins. So how about care, etc? Are they similar to saums in their water and dietry needs?

Currently they are in the 135 with 6 Bronze cories and 5 Kribensis (They were used for the cycling of the tank, will be removed as of sunday). Three of them are around 1.5-2" TL and the other about 2.5" TL, these are fairly acurrate measurings but not exact, as I didn't want to stress them any more than necesary after their overnight delivery. They all are looking very malnourished and sunken bellied, so I am treating them for parasites and trying to get them to feed. They have been sifting the sand, but ignore any food. Still getting used to their new home I guess. They are SOO much more aggressive than my saums ever were, even the smallest one which is 1.5" beat the snot out of the 2"+ krib. Two minutes after entry to the tank.

I am kinda pleased that these guys came instead of saums, I feel like it's a new challenge, and I certainly saved myself some money and time trying to locate these ones!

I will endeavour to upload some pictures later when my girlfriend arrives with her camera
However, in the mean time (whilst I'm watching them ), if anyone has any questions, tips or advise feel free to shoot.

P.s I added my emotions at the time using some smiles, Not really used them before!

 

[GrantA94]

 

[seedubs1]

Bellies look ok to me.

Did the guy say if they were on pellets? I'd just keep offering food, and give them good clean water. And all should be ok.

As for care, same as Saums man. They're just going to be more aggro and won't grow as large.

Make sure to watch out for the dreaded "white stringy poo." Seems like both saums and stalsbergi are fairly prone to parasites, etc... when young. But if they're healthy and from a decent strain, you should be ok. Personally, I've never had a parasite issue with saums (even unknown strains from petco, which I'd assume to be from fish farms). And I attribute that to feeding good quality pellets and giving them good clean water conditions.

 

[GrantA94]

Bellies look ok to me.

Did the guy say if they were on pellets? I'd just keep offering food, and give them good clean water. And all should be ok.

As for care, same as Saums man. They're just going to be more aggro and won't grow as large.

Make sure to watch out for the dreaded "white stringy poo." Seems like both saums and stalsbergi are fairly prone to parasites, etc... when young. But if they're healthy and from a decent strain, you should be ok. Personally, I've never had a parasite issue with saums (even unknown strains from petco, which I'd assume to be from fish farms). And I attribute that to feeding good quality pellets and giving them good clean water conditions.

They have had some massivore delight so they have filled out a little. But there is two runts of the four which haven't filled out as much. However there was stringy white poo in the transportation bags. So I figured I would treat to be on the safe side. They were apparantly fed live blackworms. But have taken some massivore. I tried pellets but they weren't interested. The water params are perfect at the moment - so hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

As for aggression, tell me about it! They dont even stop and flare, they just attack at will. They won't be with any other aggressive fish so hopefully there wont be any fights occuring.

Anyways, thankyou for your assistance. Have you kept stalsbergi before? If so can I see some pictures?

 

[goldcook]

just lost mine last week, due to bloating I think this guy is more herbivore, especially when young. my mistake given him FBW since i was run out my algae wafer

 

[seedubs1]

No, I haven't kept stalsbergi before. Just a lot of research, and I keep saums. One of my favorites. I don't think the stalsbergi is my personal cup of tea, and that's why I choose not to keep them myself. But I do appreciate them.

I've had really good luck feeding nls thera to juvie saums. You may want to try that. Seems to do well for them in my experience once they take to it. I feed that when young, and once they get to 4-5", I feed a mix of nls and hikari. Pellets are the staple, and every once in a while, I feed frozen blood worms. But lately I've really been just feeding quality pellets only for fear of parasites, etc... Pellets these days have 99.999% of the nutrients needed, and just throwing in some worms or tilapia isn't going to really do much other than add some protein. The treats are really just to amuse the fish keeper these days IMHO.

 

[GrantA94]

just lost mine last week, due to bloating I think this guy is more herbivore, especially when young. my mistake given him FBW since i was run out my algae wafer

Sorry to hear about your loss. I have plenty of variation in the foods I feed to avoid bloating and such. So fingers crossed. The only think they will readily eat is massivore. So I think I'll have to starve them a little!

 

[GrantA94]

No, I haven't kept stalsbergi before. Just a lot of research, and I keep saums. One of my favorites. I don't think the stalsbergi is my personal cup of tea, and that's why I choose not to keep them myself. But I do appreciate them.

I've had really good luck feeding nls thera to juvie saums. You may want to try that. Seems to do well for them in my experience once they take to it. I feed that when young, and once they get to 4-5", I feed a mix of nls and hikari. Pellets are the staple, and every once in a while, I feed frozen blood worms. But lately I've really been just feeding quality pellets only for fear of parasites, etc... Pellets these days have 99.999% of the nutrients needed, and just throwing in some worms or tilapia isn't going to really do much other than add some protein. The treats are really just to amuse the fish keeper these days IMHO.

I was completely with you regarding them not being my cup of tea. I always saw saums as the much more colourful and desirable species, were it not for these guys arriving I probably still would. However, these guys are so full of personality! I'm not saying saums aren't, but these fish seem to study me as I watch them.

I have never had any F# fish before and have never personally seen the appeal. But there are some unique challenges with fishfrom a wild source. One being getting them to eat and anotheris getting them used to me. So far they are very skittish, but very inquisitive at the same time. Even if I can't see them, I know they are watching me (strange as it sounds). They seem to be coming round after I spent all day yesterday infront of the tank!

I am yet to find any NLS in the UK, so i have always used hikari. They seem responsive of food, I think they justdon't like to eat whilst i'm present. I have seen one take some algae wafer. So hopefully they will start to eat. I hope so because the two smaller ones have sunken faces and bellies. The other two are filling out already. Obviously had some food!

As regards sexing (I know they're likely too small at the minute), is that the same as saums? Because I have searched the web and from what I can see, the females can develop a nuchal hump as well as the males? Is size, colour and body and fin shape the best way?

 

[seedubs1]

It always seems like venting is the only way to know 100% for sure with Saums/Stalsbergi.

Typically, you'll have a decent success rate by looking at body shape/color/fins after the 4-5" mark, though. But there are exceptions.

 

[GrantA94]

It always seems like venting is the only way to know 100% for sure with Saums/Stalsbergi.

Typically, you'll have a decent success rate by looking at body shape/color/fins after the 4-5" mark, though. But there are exceptions.

Well I think I have it down to a T regarding saums, without venting. So hopefully as these guys grow they will develop some noticable traits. I am looking to get a pair and spread the 'True Green Terror' about my area a little.

As regards the adult size and sexually mature size? Is it safe to say a male will reach around the 8" mark, and females 5" l as this seems to be the general census from what I have read. Also, would you say sexually mature around the 3"+ mark? As thats the size my saums bred at, so I figured it'd be pretty similar. I know I am a long way off breeding them yet but I'd like to know for future reference.