Any CCW permit holders out there?

[Chitala Ornata Mama]

I don’t understand? You seem like a gun guy? Why would you want the government telling you your not allowed to carry? Let’s say your training needed to pass for a CCW was better shooting than you just showed us in the picture. You would be denied the right to carry. Done.
Ya see my point? Why give someone else the power to take your gun away? You have blinders on man. As soon as there’s a training requirement then there’s a chance you’re not going to pass the training. Even a guy like you. Watch this, I’m in charge of training, you failed training! Give me your gun, sorry. Come back next week and we can give it another try.
Bad guy: No training requirement.

Well said!
I owe you an extra dinner for that post! I had no idea you felt that way. Add that to the list of reasons you're awesome.
Let's go shoot sometime. I coach a ladies shooting class as well as a co-ed one. I haven't gotten back into in since my baby was born. I really need to get out there.

 

[Egon]

Egon, Slow down. All I was saying is basic Gun handling safety, not laws and libality. I have a background in Special operations, and im also NRA Certified Firearms Instructor, and i carry a gun for a living. What I know and what I teach are not the same. All I was trying to say was basic safety should be required, Period. Im not saying big brother should tell you when to wipe, or what to do. Just simple safety training, with some live fire time to give people who have no experience some. Cardinal rules go a long way, unless you do not know them. You would not believe how many people come to my classes and have no idea about basic cardinal rules of safety. States have different laws, you want to discuss laws, call an attorney. I teach safe gun handling. Basic stuff. Cleaning, ammo, parts / breakdown, functions, fundamentals, storage....... Basic stuff. Whats common sense or basic to you may not be the same to all. Lots of innocent people have been injured or killed because of someone else not safely handling a firearm. Be safe.

If I could get my thoughts on paper as well as you did, we wouldnt be at page 7 right now, very well said. +10000

LOL cool, I think we are all on the same page

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

What do you guys think of this real life scenario...

After 6 1/2 hours of class, we all head to range. I like to go last in certain sports to see how other folks pan out. Well they took the first 15 to the range. There are windows so the owner can watch the folks shooting. Well I just happen to be where lane 15 is. There is a guy there getting ready, he doesnt give me an weird impression, etc. just seems like an everyday average joe. The targets we shoot at are literally the size of your front door with the image of a bad guy. Well the instructor yells Fire! Fire! pause...Fire! pause...I'm looking at this guy in lane 15 and I saw him hit it ZERO times, I thought he was aiming at the wrong target. He was showing off or doing whatever. You need to hit the target 11 out of 22 times I think at 8-10 yards. The instructor comes over and takes a look and holds a conversation with the guy, all the time with a cocky smirk on his face. Then they go to shoot again, now he does hit the paper but he only hit the bad guy twice. Now he passed because he hit the paper.

What are your thoughts on this guy, and him passing? Would you feel safe around a guy like this? This is serious business, not something to jerk off too. If I were that instructor, I wouldnt have passed him, unless he stayed after class and could show me he could a target 8-10 yards away the size of his front door.

 

[Chitala Ornata Mama]

What do you guys think of this real life scenario...

After 6 1/2 hours of class, we all head to range. I like to go last in certain sports to see how other folks pan out. Well they took the first 15 to the range. There are windows so the owner can watch the folks shooting. Well I just happen to be where lane 15 is. There is a guy there getting ready, he doesnt give me an weird impression, etc. just seems like an everyday average joe. The targets we shoot at are literally the size of your front door with the image of a bad guy. Well the instructor yells Fire! Fire! pause...Fire! pause...I'm looking at this guy in lane 15 and I saw him hit it ZERO times, I thought he was aiming at the wrong target. He was showing off or doing whatever. You need to hit the target 11 out of 22 times I think at 8-10 yards. The instructor comes over and takes a look and holds a conversation with the guy, all the time with a cocky smirk on his face. Then they go to shoot again, now he does hit the paper but he only hit the bad guy twice. Now he passed because he hit the paper.

What are your thoughts on this guy, and him passing? Would you feel safe around a guy like this? This is serious business, not something to jerk off too. If I were that instructor, I wouldnt have passed him, unless he stayed after class and could show me he could a target 8-10 yards away the size of his front door.

I think that guy needs to practice for sure, but as long as he is an American citizen, he has the right to have his firearm.
How many times are innocent people killed because the criminals can't aim? The thing no one pays attention to are the number of guns you DON'T see. You see one guy with bad aim. Ok, fine. But chances are that he will never ever decide to do a drive by. In fact, he is probably planning to carry his pistol to and from the range so he can enjoy shooting and learning.
There are countless people out there who never learn to shoot. People who only acquire a firearm after they've stolen it, and only shoot for the first time in the act of committing a crime. I can not and will not be irritated at a person trying to take the CCW test and not shooting well when I would rather see him armed than another criminal.

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

I always wonder, just how much is the government in on these classes? I know they have to call it in, you fill out forms, etc. but I dont think its mandated as much as folks think, at least in KY. We had a test at the end, called Open Neighbor. You dont know the answer, ask your neighbor, 10-15 questions I think. You think that if the government was so involved that would be a big no no right? And what about the shooting requirements? 11 out of 22 times you need to hit paper, that doesnt sound so mandated either. Seems like every class is different across the counties, my class was 8 hours total, some folks have 2 day classes, some folks have a few hours and then the shooting test.

We had 2 instructors, when it came to field stripping, anyone with a Kimber knows how time consuming this can be. Well I practiced many times just waiting for this time. My bro went to one and I went to the other. I had to field strip mine and I was last, and he yelled out, we arent done yet, we got a Kimber here! I told him I can take it apart and back together in a few minutes. Once I got done I talked to my brother, they didnt even make him take his apart.

What are you thought about that?

 

[Egon]

I always wonder, just how much is the government in on these classes? I know they have to call it in, you fill out forms, etc. but I dont think its mandated as much as folks think, at least in KY. We had a test at the end, called Open Neighbor. You dont know the answer, ask your neighbor, 10-15 questions I think. You think that if the government was so involved that would be a big no no right? And what about the shooting requirements? 11 out of 22 times you need to hit paper, that doesnt sound so mandated either. Seems like every class is different across the counties, my class was 8 hours total, some folks have 2 day classes, some folks have a few hours and then the shooting test.

We had 2 instructors, when it came to field stripping, anyone with a Kimber knows how time consuming this can be. Well I practiced many times just waiting for this time. My bro went to one and I went to the other. I had to field strip mine and I was last, and he yelled out, we arent done yet, we got a Kimber here! I told him I can take it apart and back together in a few minutes. Once I got done I talked to my brother, they didnt even make him take his apart.

What are you thought about that?

I think, if there's a chance someone (Good guy) can fail then someone (good guy) can possibly lose the right to defend him/herself. Maybe today everyone passes, that's how it always starts. Then some kid with a hoodie gets shot and tomorrow no one passes......

 

[Lepisosteus platyrhincus]

I always wonder, just how much is the government in on these classes? I know they have to call it in, you fill out forms, etc. but I dont think its mandated as much as folks think, at least in KY. We had a test at the end, called Open Neighbor. You dont know the answer, ask your neighbor, 10-15 questions I think. You think that if the government was so involved that would be a big no no right? And what about the shooting requirements? 11 out of 22 times you need to hit paper, that doesnt sound so mandated either. Seems like every class is different across the counties, my class was 8 hours total, some folks have 2 day classes, some folks have a few hours and then the shooting test.

We had 2 instructors, when it came to field stripping, anyone with a Kimber knows how time consuming this can be. Well I practiced many times just waiting for this time. My bro went to one and I went to the other. I had to field strip mine and I was last, and he yelled out, we arent done yet, we got a Kimber here! I told him I can take it apart and back together in a few minutes. Once I got done I talked to my brother, they didnt even make him take his apart.

What are you thought about that?

It sounds like you just went to some random class not a CCW permit class. If so, I dont care how they run thier class. If not, then WTF is up with the field stripping???????

What do you guys think of this real life scenario...

After 6 1/2 hours of class, we all head to range. I like to go last in certain sports to see how other folks pan out. Well they took the first 15 to the range. There are windows so the owner can watch the folks shooting. Well I just happen to be where lane 15 is. There is a guy there getting ready, he doesnt give me an weird impression, etc. just seems like an everyday average joe. The targets we shoot at are literally the size of your front door with the image of a bad guy. Well the instructor yells Fire! Fire! pause...Fire! pause...I'm looking at this guy in lane 15 and I saw him hit it ZERO times, I thought he was aiming at the wrong target. He was showing off or doing whatever. You need to hit the target 11 out of 22 times I think at 8-10 yards. The instructor comes over and takes a look and holds a conversation with the guy, all the time with a cocky smirk on his face. Then they go to shoot again, now he does hit the paper but he only hit the bad guy twice. Now he passed because he hit the paper.

What are your thoughts on this guy, and him passing? Would you feel safe around a guy like this? This is serious business, not something to jerk off too. If I were that instructor, I wouldnt have passed him, unless he stayed after class and could show me he could a target 8-10 yards away the size of his front door.

What I think is this guy simply needs more practise. I would be interested in seeing how he would do at a real life SD shooting distance(which is WAY below 10 yards, typically less than 7 10 feet). I would have 0 qualms about him having a firearm for SD. He shouldnt be shooting at 10yards but frankly, it is quite rare to be involved in a SD shooting at that distance.

 

[trizzot]

Ok, As an instructor i can assist. If my students cant hit the target, they are not going to pass. Even worse, I failed them. My job as an instructor is to help them with fundamentals. When applied in the correct way, the hits on target will come. Will I just fail them, No. I will offer to assist one on one, to help them become better. I do not take their firearms away, they are not mine. My job is to teach and instruct. A good instructor will not just fail you, take your money and send you packing. 10 yards should not be a problem. In Ohio I am required to instruct a 12 hour class with two hours of live fire. I have not had a problem to this day, getting someone to pass, zero failures. The test I give is 50 questions, and a live fire test. The main thing i am looking for is safe gun handling.
Train like you fight. if you cant hit the target at 10 yards under no stress, your chances of hitting a target at any distance under stress are slim. I would have qualms about you having a firearm for CCW if you cant hit your target in training. As far as guessing distance or times you may need to defend your life, good luck. Anything can happen at any time any where. Thats why we train. Fundamentals are fundamentals. if you apply them the right way or even close, your going to get your hits at 10 yards.

As for the instructor walking away from a new shooter with a live firearm, no way. New shooters= 1 shooter, 1 instructor, and Im right with him or her. you dont walk away. It sounds like some training that needs tightened up. If im right there with you i can see and adjust on the spot.
A good instructor will make you a better shooter, Ill help just about anyone who wants to learn and is safe.

 

[Egon]

Ok, As an instructor i can assist. If my students cant hit the target, they are not going to pass. Even worse, I failed them. My job as an instructor is to help them with fundamentals. When applied in the correct way, the hits on target will come. Will I just fail them, No. I will offer to assist one on one, to help them become better. I do not take their firearms away, they are not mine. Train like you fight. if you cant hit the target at 10 yards under no stress, your chances of hitting a target at any distance under stress are slim. I would have qualms about you having a firearm for CCW if you cant hit your target in training. What are the chances of shooting a bad guy with out a gun? Now a person just failed your class and doesn't have a gun at a gun fight? As far as guessing distance or times you may need to defend your life, good luck.Luck? I would rather have a Glock! Anything can happen at any time any where. Exactly why we (all adults) should be able to carry a weapon As for the instructor walking away from a new shooter with a live firearm, no way. New shooters= 1 shooter, 1 instructor, and Im right with him or her. you dont walk away. It sounds like some training that needs tightened up. If im right there with you i can see and adjust on the spot. What if your not the guy teaching? Oh wait, all teachers are the same....
QUOTE]
Just some thoughts in red, why I don't like "required training" - Egon

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

Egon, hate to tell you this but if you live in a state where its mandatory to be tested via paper test and live fire test, oral training then you got to do it. Its as simple as that, no fighting the law. If you or anyone else doesnt want to be told what to do, how to do it, pass or fail you in order to obtain your concealed permit, then dont bother taking the class. No sense in picking apart the training needed in most states to get your permit, its how it is. Im not sure I understand what you are trying to get across in red, it doesnt make sense to me.

1. What are your chances of shooting a bad guy without a gun? Well if you dont have a gun you dont have a gun, what do you want us to do about it?
2. Now a person just failed your class and doesnt have a gun at a gun fight? He/she failed for a reason, if the states requires a pass/fail test to conceal carry or even open carry, then he/she needs to take the class again and straighten up their act.
3. Luck? I would rather have a glock! What does this mean?
4. Exactly why we (adults) should be able to carry a weapon. Well yea you can carrry a deadly weapon, according to your state, you take the required tests to carry a weapon or just pay the fee and wait like some states allow or live in a state that is CC.
5. What if your not the guy teaching? OH wait, all teachers are the same? How in the world are all the teachers the same? That doesnt make any sense whatsoever and neither does the first part.

I dont see the complications of taking a mandatory test, and apparently neither do the millions of americans that CC and OC in the US except a few folks that have fear of the government or whatever else they want to call it.