Any "Panama Green" Umbee Still Around?

[the animal guy]

I saw Umbeeking's Gorillus video. Man ppl if you think it's truly a black color then you need to go learn your colors or check your eyes. Get real pls

I only saw a green umbee of a different face with lots of grey dulling away the blue and the whole fish.. Looks like water too cold that's why they turn dark. idk. I'd put the temp up on them. No disrespect to proud owners of dark umbee fish as they are your personal taste

2 cents: I like outstanding beautiful blue blingin umbees. They are the nice ones.. They are the pioneers & beauties of the umbees (if there be more).

I wonder what umbeeking gonna catch next. That's always a treat to see.

 

[Aquatik]

Saying the blue Rio mag is way nicer is not the point, just like saying a orange midas is nicer then a barred. Umbee are a wonderful fish and if you can collect differnt kinds thats just a bonus, Mo told me Oliver had black umbee I dont care if they are not the same as umbee king I was interested because its rare and differnt thats what appeals to me. The more variety the better.

 

[baldtaxguy]

this is a discussion kid not an argument, now have a candy and a seat while grown men talk

I'm sure petty discussion points can also be a lesson learned.

superiority for a fish we don't have, c'mon man you can do better than that !! personally I like the blues better and above umbee I like my dovii get you facts straight cause your assumptions won't hold up. While you guys worry about names explain the chosen name for the green variant this thread was intended for ????? sp. panama green a name of the river in which the fish was caught................ ?? anyone ?? lol can't wait to hear the answers of that........ maybe the blacks should be called sp. columbian blacks ehhh ? what a joke

Maybe it will - not sure why one name over another would be a joke. As described earlier, a location point puts a name to a face. However, this umbie variant appears to have distinguishing characteristics, attractive ones, which may likely, over time, be the basis for its common name, … or not, whether the location point is disclosed…, or not. Whatever it’s called today…or tomorrow…or next year, its a fantastic looking fish.

 

[dogofwar]

At the end of the day, UK can give whatever trade or common name he wants for the fish that he collected and brought back...

Are they a new species? Not until SCIENTISTS describe them as one. Or lump them into a current species. This is NOT a simple test but a process that includes description and publication in a scientific journal.

Are they a "new" type of "umbee" for the cichlid hobby? Probably - they look "different" than other umbees. But, without knowing where they're from (i.e. a location), it's not possible to know whether the few fish that he brought back are typical or atypical specimens for that place (We don't even know the place!). Cichlids can be highly variable in appearance, even in a given location.

To find "new" and interesting cichlids..."different" than what is available in the hobby / described by science is hard NOT to do when collecting, especially in off-the-beaten path places. We probably collected half a dozen or more last trip to Uruguay. How did we describe them? Genus cf. species "Collection Location".... To do otherwise would just be confusing for other hobbyists and (some day, maybe) for science.

The other big question is: How many hobbyists are capable of housing an umbee for life? I'm sure not...as my largest current tank is 180g, a far cry from what is required to house these beasts...

Matt

 

[Aquamojo]

At the end of the day, UK can give whatever trade or common name he wants for the fish that he collected and brought back...

Are they a new species? Not until SCIENTISTS describe them as one. Or lump them into a current species. This is NOT a simple test but a process that includes description and publication in a scientific journal.

Are they a "new" type of "umbee" for the cichlid hobby? Probably - they look "different" than other umbees. But, without knowing where they're from (i.e. a location), it's not possible to know whether the few fish that he brought back are typical or atypical specimens for that place (We don't even know the place!). Cichlids can be highly variable in appearance, even in a given location.

To find "new" and interesting cichlids..."different" than what is available in the hobby / described by science is hard NOT to do when collecting, especially in off-the-beaten path places. We probably collected half a dozen or more last trip to Uruguay. How did we describe them? Genus cf. species "Collection Location".... To do otherwise would just be confusing for other hobbyists and (some day, maybe) for science.

The other big question is: How many hobbyists are capable of housing an umbee for life? I'm sure not...as my largest current tank is 180g, a far cry from what is required to house these beasts...

Matt

Well said.

Green, blue or black...the answer to the last question (IMHO) is very few are capable of housing one for life. Just my guess and opinion. Anything less than 300 gallons for a single (adult) specimen is just limiting the life span.

 

[RD.]

anyway, we all understood what you were saying way back in previous threads about clarifying genus, ID's, and geographical varients.

Clearly you did not, or history wouldn't be repeating itself in this discussion. You guys seem to be under the impression that some simple lab work is going to determine if this fish is a new species, at which time you (or someone?) will then properly describe them. As Mo, Matt, and myself have attempted to explain, it's not that simple.

While you guys worry about names explain the chosen name for the green variant this thread was intended for ????? sp. panama green a name of the river in which the fish was caught................ ?? anyone ?? lol can't wait to hear the answers of that........

According to someone who stated that they were with Rusty Wessel when the green morph was collected in Panama several yrs ago, the collection location was the Rio Meteti.

And just as I previously suggested with regards to this black morph, it would have made more sense had Rusty described it as C. umbrifera sp. Green "Rio Meteti". But Rusty is in the business of selling fish, and I suppose "Panama Green" has a more sexy ring to it, which is most likely why he chose that name to describe it. Also, it isn't about to be confused with other green morphs of umbees, because unlike the situation with the black morphs, no other green morphs exist in the hobby.

Jason previously stated that there will be confusion between other black morphs, and the one that Chris collected - my recommendation will remove any & all potential confusion, now, and in the future. Common names have caused massive problems in this industry, and still do today - many years after species HAVE been properly classified. Using proper names (genus/species), with collection locations, removes those problems for hobbyists, and as Matt suggested perhaps years down the road when science attempts to sort all of this out.

I honestly don't understand the hostility coming from some of you.

 

[LOPAKA]

Clearly you did not, or history wouldn't be repeating itself in this discussion. You guys seem to be under the impression that some simple lab work is going to determine if this fish is a new species, at which time you (or someone?) will then properly describe them. As Mo, Matt, and myself have attempted to explain, it's not that simple.




According to someone who stated that they were with Rusty Wessel when the green morph was collected in Panama several yrs ago, the collection location was the Rio Meteti.

And just as I previously suggested with regards to this black morph, it would have made more sense had Rusty described it as C. umbrifera sp. Green "Rio Meteti". But Rusty is in the business of selling fish, and I suppose "Panama Green" has a more sexy ring to it, which is most likely why he chose that name to describe it. Also, it isn't about to be confused with other green morphs of umbees, because unlike the situation with the black morphs, no other green morphs exist in the hobby.

Jason previously stated that there will be confusion between other black morphs, and the one that Chris collected - my recommendation will remove any & all potential confusion, now, and in the future. Common names have caused massive problems in this industry, and still do today - many years after species HAVE been properly classified. Using proper names (genus/species), with collection locations, removes those problems for hobbyists, and as Matt suggested perhaps years down the road when science attempts to sort all of this out.

I honestly don't understand the hostility coming from some of you.

no hostility Neil, just stating the facts that not all described species are described by the river by which they were caught and for this "black umbee" Oliver was selling it more closely resembles a panama green than those that Chris brought back

 

[dogofwar]

You are incorrect.

In order to be described, a species must have a type location. And that location can't be a secret code.

Matt

no hostility Neil, just stating the facts that not all described species are described by the river by which they were caught and for this "black umbee" Oliver was selling it more closely resembles a panama green than those that Chris brought back

 

[LOPAKA]

You are incorrect.

In order to be described, a species must have a type location. And that location can't be a secret code.

Matt

you are incorrect

the panama green is a real life example contrary to your statement

 

[baldtaxguy]

you are incorrect

the panama green is a real life example contrary to your statement

You must think that the panama green is a described species....?