Any problem feeding Earthworms as a daily treat?

[dogofwar]

It really depends on the type of fish, but I'd recommend against feeding your fish every - skip a day or two per week.

I don't understand why some folks act as if feeding live worms is a bad thing. Many of my new world cichlids regularly (1-2 times per week) get red wiggler worms on top of a staple diet of quality pellets. I culture them myself (a rubbermaid bin in my garage) and feed them veggie/fruit scraps and paper that we'd normally throw away...

Saw the following in an article posted in the Cichla area regarding foods to prevent HITH: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php

5.1.3 Red Wrigglers - Eisenia foetida

There is one organism above all others that is constantly propounded and a cure for S. vortens - that is the RED WRIGGLER Eisenia foetida. The question I ask is why should it reach this lofty status. E. foetida has been used as fish bait and as a fish food supplement since the 1930s (Mason, et al., 1992). Most cry of its high nutritional value and simply see it as a vitamin and mineral supplement. Personally I think it is considerably more complex than that; whilst E. foetida is well known as a phenomenal source of minerals e.g. calcium, magnesium, and as a 'trace elements warehouse' - it is well known as a 'miraculous' enzyme factory and on the downside, as a metal ions e.g. cadmium, copper and zinc and pesticides accumulator - so one has to ask what is really happening to S. vortens during the feeding of E. foetida. Is there some other anti-microbial effect occurring in addition to the dietary supplementation? Taking this into account it is important that the source of live E. foetida is taken into consideration. They are very easy to breed and have a great re-cycling effect in general - so I suggest that if you want to feed your own E. foetida that you cultivate your own culture to minimise the risk of contamination from undesirable sources.

Matt

 

[RD.]

There is one organism above all others that is constantly propounded and a cure for S. vortens - that is the RED WRIGGLER Eisenia foetida.

Not that I think there is any problem with feeding worms (of any sp.) but unless the author of that article can offer up some data to support his position I'm calling BS.




I also would not feed earthworms on a daily basis, but that's just me .......

 

[dogofwar]

Not sure if you checked out the article I posted, but it's pretty well documented (and informative): http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php

One of the articles Goodall and Stewart cited is:

Mason, W.T. Jr., Rottmann, R.W., Dequine, J.F., (1992), 'Culture of Earthworms for Bait or Fish Food', Circular 1053, Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, Florida Cooperative, USA: Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/IR00001335/00001

In addition, earthworms have been used alone and in
combination with other foods, such as commercial
feeds, in diets of other fish species at these
laboratories. The advantages of earthworms in the
diets of cultured fish have been demonstrated. For
example, carp fed dried nightcrawlers supplemented
with sardine oil grew better than those fed a fish meal
diet.

There's also a pretty good review of the benefits of inclusion of red wigglers in fish diets here: http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/ABR-vol3-iss5/ABR-2012-3-5-2500-2506.pdf

2-2- Nutrition of aquaculture with earthworm eisenia fetida
Using this organism in live or dried is important in the aquaculture diet. Suitable compounds of fatty acids and
essential amino acids and high amount of omega 3 in this organism distinguished it from plant resources [7,8].
In one study , African catfish fingerling clariasgriepinus fed by
earthworm eisenia fetida.. Results of this study show that fry feeding with earthworm eisenia fetide causes faster
growth and higher percentage of resistance against stress and survival in comparison with control fish which did
not feed with earthworm eisenia fetida [9]. fresh water fishes that were fed with eisenia fetida during guttatus,
mystus ,grew up better than control group fishes during Increasing growth at farming fish rainbow trout, Siberian
sturgeon acipenser baeri, snake fish angullia japonica seriala quinquer diater anguilla angullia in Japan and
Thailand were fed with different types of earthworm eisenia fetida were also observed [10,11,12,13].

I, of course, haven't reviewed the articles cited in Fadaee's review...because I've been using red wigglers as a great supplementary food source for years!

Matt

Not that I think there is any problem with feeding worms (of any sp.) but unless the author of that article can offer up some data to support his position I'm calling BS.




I also would not feed earthworms on a daily basis, but that's just me .......

 

[RD.]

Matt, I am intimately familiar with that article, and many others on the subject of Spironucleus vortens, and have posted about this pathogen in great lengths over the years, including in a few threads of mine that were made stickies here on MFK.

Yet nowhere have I ever seen any data whatsoever to suggest that any sp. of worm, including Eisenia foetida, offers any type of cure for S. vortens. So no, it's not pretty well documented.

 

[neutrino]

I'll elaborate on my previous post. If you're feeding something daily, even in small quantities, it really become part of the staple diet rather than just a treat.

Agree. And then you get into considerations of what are safe, optimal, or detrimental levels of whatever the particular food source, which is something aquaculture science is studying all the time for numerous aquaculture feed sources with volumes and volumes of literature on the subject, including earthworm studies. I've done a good little bit of reading on earthworms/aquaculture, not that I'm an expert on the subject by any means. But, what I've found is contradictory to say the least, in terms of effect on fish growth, effect on fat ratio in fish, etc. Too contradictory for me to form a strong opinion, except that % of total diet seems to be important. Otherwise, so many variables in the studies I've seen, including particular species of earthworm, species of fish, baseline diet the earthworm diet is being compared to, which is not always described adequately enough imo to fairly judge the results-- earthworm diet resulted in X growth, but compared to what, exactly? But some of what I've read basically says much more than 25% begins to cause growth issues, fat deposition issues, etc. One study suggested this was due to an inherent protein/energy imbalance with substantial earthworm % in the diet. In any case, while exact percentages might vary between studies, most of what I've read says the optimal % of inclusion in fish diet is limited.

Chemicals, like fertilizers, etc. are not the only consideration. Already mentioned are pollution from auto exhaust, etc. Another factor is some studies have shown earthworms absorb and store heavy metals, including cadmium, mercury, etc. They can also harbor a host of pathogens, including some nasty parasites which can vary be region. Don't know enough about it to comment on the safety of raising your own in a clean environment, but I've read enough that I wouldn't personally feed any live, wild earthworms to my fish, and I have some trepidation about live earthworms in general.

You might find this interesting regarding E. foetida (red wrigglers, I believe; I've read the complete paper, but for some reason my link to it doesn't work, so I've just linked the abstract). Concluded Aeromonas hydrophilia "to be indigenous to the earthworm E. foetida". Aeromonas hydrophilia can cause a host of serious health problems in fish, including hemoragic septicemia, flesh ulcers, etc. In other words, it's nasty if it gets hold of a fish. I can't comment on the validity of the study's conclusion or the safety of E. foetida as fish food. And the real cause of some fish illness is quite often a black box without doing a necropsy, etc. to determine the cause.

But all of the above is enough for me that I wouldn't feed live earthworms to my fish, little too much Russian roulette for my tastes, though like I said I don't know about culturing them yourself. But-- if I was feeding live earthworms and one or some of my fish occasionally fell ill or died for unknown reasons I'd be pretty quick to suspect the worms-- my opinion.

 

[dogofwar]

RD. - I agree that I haven't seen any research to back up the claims in the article with regard to red wigglers and Spironucleus. By "Pretty well documented", I was referring to the benefits of including them in fish diets and not as a "cure" for disease.

neut - red wigglers (and earthworms) are widely used in aquaculture and for aquarium fish. I posted links to a variety of peer-reviewed articles about their use and benefits. Many of them are methodologically rigorous, peer-reviewed and have positive conclusions.

I culture my own red wigglers and (before I knew better) bought earthworms. Without conducting peer-reviewed research of my own on the impact of inclusion of red wigglers in my fishes' diets, I'm confident enough in their benefits (and lack of dangers) that I continue to use them. I wouldn't bother if I thought otherwise.

neut - You've repeatedly cautioned about the dangers of nematodes and other pathogens in red wiggler worms. Having never experienced any of these issues (either with the worms I culture or prior with purchased and yard-collected earthworms), I can't comment. I've heard countless horror stories and bad experiences regarding live black worms and other kinds of aquatic worms, yet they're used extensively (not by me). Same with feeder fish. Same with spoiled frozen food. Same with brine shrimp, etc.

My experience has been a uniformly positive one. Although I continue to feed Xtreme pellets as a staple, adding live red wigglers to the diet of the fish I keep (mostly new world cichlids and livebearers) has resulted in shorter recovery times between spawns and good growth and recovery from injuries. How much better? Hard to say...Of course I also change lots of water, clean my filters and otherwise take care of my fish! And wash my hands after feeding the worms

The empirically indisputable outcome of culturing red wigglers has been financial: I have spent ~$14 in the past 4 years on live or frozen food (for a container of baby brine shrimp for some fry and for a starter culture of worms). Prior, I was spending that or more in a month. I've saved hundreds of dollars.

It's also good for the environment - we've diverted probably hundreds of pounds of food scraps and paper from landfills into the red wiggler bin.

Finally, it's interesting and fun for the kids to harvest worms, wash them off, examine the worms and their behavior...and of course feed them to the fish.

Am I an advocate? Absolutely. Any conflicts of interest? None at all...

Matt

Matt, I am intimately familiar with that article, and many others on the subject of Spironucleus vortens, and have posted about this pathogen in great lengths over the years, including in a few threads of mine that were made stickies here on MFK.

Yet nowhere have I ever seen any data whatsoever to suggest that any sp. of worm, including Eisenia foetida, offers any type of cure for S. vortens. So no, it's not pretty well documented.

 

[RD.]

RD. - I agree that I haven't seen any research to back up the claims in the article with regard to red wigglers and Spironucleus.

Nor do I believe that you will. That was the only point that I was attempting to make.





With regards to the benefits of feeding live earthworms, that would depend entirely on what one feeds as their main staple. The same fatty acids, amino acids, and omega 3's found in an earthworm, can be found in any decent quality fish food. In fact, on a wet matter basis, compared to most dry fish foods, the amino acid (protein) content of an earthworm is quite low.

Approximate analysis of earthwoms was completed by Dr. Carl Cater in the Oilseed Products Laboratory at Texas A&M. He reported that on the samples tested moisture (volatile) averaged 80.44%. A further analysis of freeze-dried earthworms indicated the following components: oil 6.8-7.1%, nitrogen 10.6 - 11.0%, protein 66.2 - 68.6% and ash 9.3 - 9.7%. This would indicate that on whole, live earthworms are less than 14% protein. Therefore its use as food or a feed supplement would probably be limited. It should be noted that the freeze-dried product (after water is removed) compares favorably with defatted soy flour from the standpoint of amino acid availability. Further research may lead to the use of earthworms as a food supplement but this use is at best only a potential market.

 

[neutrino]

Matt-- As in my post above I've tried not to come to or post overly dogmatic conclusions on all this, especially since the more I've read on the subject the more I've found conflicting information on it, so at least for me, the jury's still out on it.

From what I've read, what does appear conclusive is: Earthworms ingest and store various pollutants or toxins from whatever happens to be their environment, so the degree of safety or not apparently depends on what they're ingesting in their local habitat, down to the level of the particular few feet of ground in which they live. Wild earthworms can also host any number of pathogens, parasites, etc., some of them are more prevalent in some geographical regions than others, some can be quite nasty. But, so can wild fish and any number of other wild organisms, so someone has to judge for themselves how much risk they want to take on this point.

So, all I'm trying to say is this information is out there and if it was me asking I'd want to know there's a risk side to feeding wild earthworms. To what extent culturing your own and feeding them live is risk free, I don't really know, but if done properly it has to be safer than collecting them wild.

Also, it appears that, like a number of other food sources for fish, too high a % of earthworm in their diet causes a nutritional imbalance for most fish. But some studies and articles address this and others don't.

I agree with you on the whole thing of live blackworms, feeder fish, frozen food, etc. Few years ago I read a fairly extensive aquaculture article on "bio-security", which fed a conclusion I'd already come to, which was to use freeze dried in place of frozen and to pretty much avoid live foods, though I've made an exception a time or two with fish that were somewhat emaciated when I got them and/or refusing to eat over an extended enough period that I fed them live brine shrimp, crickets, or the like to get them started eating again.

I realize I might be on the overly cautious end of the spectrum on some of this. It's served me well, but others have to judge for themselves.

 

[dogofwar]

If feeding live red wigglers means that I need to buy ~10-15% less quality prepared foods, then I'm fine with that...

Matt

With regards to the benefits of feeding live earthworms, that would depend entirely on what one feeds as their main staple. The same fatty acids, amino acids, and omega 3's found in an earthworm, can be found in any decent quality fish food. In fact, on a wet matter basis, compared to most dry fish foods, the amino acid (protein) content of an earthworm is quite low.

 

[dogofwar]

I'm not familiar - nor have I researched (...nor do I care to) - whether and how fish and other aquatic animals are susceptible to the kinds of nematodes and other parasites that worms could, possibly harbor. In general, though, terrestrial parasites don't affect aquatic organisms (and vice versa). Again, in years of using red wigglers and other worms, cultured myself, bought and collected, I can't ever point to an instance where feeding red wigglers or earthworms has resulted in some sort of internal parasite infestation, bacterial infection or undiagnosed illness.

We don't use fertilizer or insecticides on our lawn. They're not good for kids, either! It's true that worms ingest and absorb whats in the soil, heavy metals and other nasty stuff included. I'd worry more about my fish bio-accumulating these if I was planning to eat them. But I'm not and that's why I also continue to use water conditioners, medications and other aquarium products that aren't safe for aquaculture (i.e fish that we will eat).

The primary danger of red wigglers, in my view, is overfeeding, which could result in intestinal blockage (in the short term) or secondary effects like dirty water / ammonia spikes and fatty deposits on internal organs. Really no different than other foods.

If there are instances of contaminated, sick or otherwise disease-laden red wigglers or earthworms harming aquarium fish, folks please post them!

Matt

Matt-- As in my post above I've tried not to come to or post overly dogmatic conclusions on all this, especially since the more I've read on the subject the more I've found conflicting information on it, so at least for me, the jury's still out on it.

From what I've read, what does appear conclusive is: Earthworms ingest and store various pollutants or toxins from whatever happens to be their environment, so the degree of safety or not apparently depends on what they're ingesting in their local habitat, down to the level of the particular few feet of ground in which they live. Wild earthworms can also host any number of pathogens, parasites, etc., some of them are more prevalent in some geographical regions than others, some can be quite nasty. But, so can wild fish and any number of other wild organisms, so someone has to judge for themselves how much risk they want to take on this point.

So, all I'm trying to say is this information is out there and if it was me asking I'd want to know there's a risk side to feeding wild earthworms. To what extent culturing your own and feeding them live is risk free, I don't really know, but if done properly it has to be safer than collecting them wild.

Also, it appears that, like a number of other food sources for fish, too high a % of earthworm in their diet causes a nutritional imbalance for most fish. But some studies and articles address this and others don't.

I agree with you on the whole thing of live blackworms, feeder fish, frozen food, etc. Few years ago I read a fairly extensive aquaculture article on "bio-security", which fed a conclusion I'd already come to, which was to use freeze dried in place of frozen and to pretty much avoid live foods, though I've made an exception a time or two with fish that were somewhat emaciated when I got them and/or refusing to eat over an extended enough period that I fed them live brine shrimp, crickets, or the like to get them started eating again.

I realize I might be on the overly cautious end of the spectrum on some of this. It's served me well, but others have to judge for themselves.