are built in overflows worth it?
- Thread starter yamaracer5
- Start date
i mix and match a over flow and a canister...i thinkk the over flow draws more water in but the canister gets alot of the stuff from the bottom
Toddo;3461758; said:
I like the look of no plumbing or other hardware in the tank. I want my tanks to look as natural as possible. I go with glass-holes.com over flows. They are very small for the amount of water they move. It's not the top to bottom over flows you see for the commercial aquariums. Then set up a small sump with your heater and other equipment in there. Then for mechanical I like to use a canister filter with holes drilled in the bottom of the tank and hidden from view.
A few people here have suggested using canisters for mechanical filtration... while they can be used as such, canisters are typically more involved to clean than most other forms of filtration. This fact often leads people to not clean them very often and many people belive the misconception that cansiters do not need to be cleaned very often...
Any filter that is used to collect waste should be cleaned regularly. Waste in the system is contributing to the accumulation of waste byproducts, until it is removed from the system. Rotting waste in the fitler is still rotting waste in the system...
Using canisters plumbed into holes drilled in the glass is not a very common approach. Canister motors are not designed to have their returns placed at the bottom of the tank and the additional resistence from the additional pressure of the water depth will reduce the output of the canister. This does not mean it cannot be done, but if you do so expect the loss in flow.
I've personally never in my life seen a tank that lacked sufficient surface area to house sufficient amounts of bacteria without a sump or even fancy bio media. Therefore I think it is a complete and total waste to use a sump that is set up simply for bio filtration.
It makes about as much sense as walking around town breathing out of an air tank. Sure you can breath... but you can breath just as well without it...
Any filter that is used to collect waste should be cleaned regularly. Waste in the system is contributing to the accumulation of waste byproducts, until it is removed from the system. Rotting waste in the fitler is still rotting waste in the system...
Using canisters plumbed into holes drilled in the glass is not a very common approach. Canister motors are not designed to have their returns placed at the bottom of the tank and the additional resistence from the additional pressure of the water depth will reduce the output of the canister. This does not mean it cannot be done, but if you do so expect the loss in flow.
I've personally never in my life seen a tank that lacked sufficient surface area to house sufficient amounts of bacteria without a sump or even fancy bio media. Therefore I think it is a complete and total waste to use a sump that is set up simply for bio filtration.
It makes about as much sense as walking around town breathing out of an air tank. Sure you can breath... but you can breath just as well without it...
nc_nutcase;3465138; said:
I'm going to go a head an disagree with ya on this one.
Pressure: If there is additional pressure from the returns placed at the bottom of the tank then you would have to agree there's additional pressure (the same pressure) on the intake side of the pump. Of course this is assuming the intakes and returns are drilled into the bottom of the tank. I never saw a tank just drilled for returns?
So, if we agree the pressure is the same for the return as well as the intake where is the additional pressure of the water depth coming from?
Canister Motor Design: Aquarium/pool pumps are made for pushing water, they are not very good at pulling water. A pulling type pump needs a sealed type of impeller with very high tolerances to make a vacuums for pulling. This type of pump is not used for pools and aquariums. That's why you will often see pump instructions saying do not run dry. These pumps need to have the water already there to push it away. If you have a choice of where to place your pump, it's better to place it at the water line or below. All aquariums pumps are designed to be placed at the water line or below, this includes below the aquarium.
Not a fan of corner overflows. I know, when done right they give many years of service without problems. There is something about a hole in the bottom of the tank that would always make me uneasy. Guess that is why outboards as opposed to stern drives for me.
I am a BIG fan of the skimmer style, such as supplied/available from glass holes.
I am also a BIG fan of sump filtration. Be it a wet or wet/dry.
A well thought out media holder can be very simple to service. Love being able to pull a media holder, full of that browned out, gunk laden material while the system is running, and replace it with fresh, clean in a matter of seconds.
Will a skimmer be able to get all the poop from the bottom, no..but I have not been able to get any filter to do that. HOB, canister, powerheads in a variety of combinations and configurations have not been able to get it all out either.
The expandability of a sump can not be matched by any other form of filtration. Want to try a FBF, no problem..put it together, drop the pump into the sump and away you go. Algae scrubber, have at it. Almost anything available can be added to a sump with ease and you can be sitting/laying in front of the stand while doing it.
Even cost is not a big issue for one can use inexpensive materials for the sump and media holder.
Just a basic search will give you more ideas as to materials, pitfalls, part sources, successes and failures.
Is it worth it to do a corner overflow, not for me.
Is it worth it to drill a tank for a sump, absolutely.
I am a BIG fan of the skimmer style, such as supplied/available from glass holes.
I am also a BIG fan of sump filtration. Be it a wet or wet/dry.
A well thought out media holder can be very simple to service. Love being able to pull a media holder, full of that browned out, gunk laden material while the system is running, and replace it with fresh, clean in a matter of seconds.
Will a skimmer be able to get all the poop from the bottom, no..but I have not been able to get any filter to do that. HOB, canister, powerheads in a variety of combinations and configurations have not been able to get it all out either.
The expandability of a sump can not be matched by any other form of filtration. Want to try a FBF, no problem..put it together, drop the pump into the sump and away you go. Algae scrubber, have at it. Almost anything available can be added to a sump with ease and you can be sitting/laying in front of the stand while doing it.
Even cost is not a big issue for one can use inexpensive materials for the sump and media holder.
Just a basic search will give you more ideas as to materials, pitfalls, part sources, successes and failures.
Is it worth it to do a corner overflow, not for me.
Is it worth it to drill a tank for a sump, absolutely.
yamaracer5;3459707; said:
Do you what types of overflows are available with your new tank?
Is your new 125g going to be glass or acrylic?
What are the dimensions? 4'x2'x2'?
Are you going with a colored background?
In My Opinion...
A really clean, centered, "back color matching" overflow box, that has an ability to draw water from the top (skim) as well as the bottom, that is plumbed with ''durso'' type standpipe, and had dual returns would be my choice.
This would allow the tank to set closer to the wall, and the internal plumbing is much quieter.
A "Wet/Dry" filter, also called "Sumps" can give you more bang for your buck. Especially if you fabricate your own, using readily available parts.
Plastic "rubbermaid" drawers and tote is all basically. Then add some mechanical filter sheet and bio-media, in the drawers and a return pump in the tote, a valve and some simple PVC pipe or hose...Really very simple.
Spend the money on the overflow box, standpipe and pump, IMO skimping there will only make you hate your system.
When you said,"just put some canisters on it", you are looking at $500.00+
for two new FX5's, way more if you go dual Ehiems.
Way more than a well built Wet/Dry...
Servicing a properly setup Wet/Dry, is also much easier, so it will get done when needed.
As mentioned above, heaters, UV's, Scrubbers and such, can be easily added and concealed...
It may take you longer to set up initially, but it is well worth it, down the line...
There are lots of people here to help you out, You just have to decide which direction you want to go...
I have about 5 drilled tanks and a few undrilled tanks. My perception is if the tank is 180 gallon or larger then spend the extra to get the overflows. If the tank is a 125 or less I would definately just get an fx5. The overflows can be a bit more of a pain.
get both canister to pick up the heavier particles and the overflow to take all the proteins and gunk that are on the surface . problem solved .
And running a return into the bottom of your tank from a canister is a big no no.
And running a return into the bottom of your tank from a canister is a big no no.
The additional pressure the canister has to deal with when the return is placed at the bottom of the tank is the displacement of the water that is in the return tube (when the filter is turned off)… The deeper the canister/pump is asked to push water below the surface the more pressure/resistance it will have to deal with…Egon;3465355; said:
　
As I said in my original post, This does not mean it cannot be done, but it will reduce the flow of the filter and this should be factored in…
　
I disagree with a couple of further points made in the full post I quoted from, but I do not see them as directly relevant to this thread so no need to debate them here…
