Are pure Rays a thing of the past?

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If the hobby were to pursue a chipping route then the establishment of a database with an easy to use search function would have to be created as well. In my experience the holstein usa database would be a good start in terms of format other then you can not search an animal that isn't yours. This however could get a little messy as it would take full time employees to manage the distribution and creation of the chips.


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If bd/leos aren't actually hybrids then why not refer to them all as p13s? If not hybrids then they are simply higher and lower grade p13s with two different names. The chipping idea is interesting but my fear is it would be prime for people to lie about their rays, by putting a chip in a ray that calls it one thing when in reality the ray is something totally different.

Leo/bd bd or Leo is a grading system
When people buy a p13 they should know by now a Leo is standard p13 a Leo/bd is a medium grade p13 and a bd is the higher grade

That said I have seen a lot of What people are calling bd lately I would would just class as Leo/bd

It's that Ray snobbery again people who pay bd top money don't like there bd being just called p13


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If the hobby were to pursue a chipping route then the establishment of a database with an easy to use search function would have to be created as well. In my experience the holstein usa database would be a good start in terms of format other then you can not search an animal that isn't yours. This however could get a little messy as it would take full time employees to manage the distribution and creation of the chips.


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Chipping will never work you have to many smaller breeders who doing even use the Internet but sell the odd motoro pup to LFS

$10 May not be a lot on the price of a $1000 Ray but it is on the cost of a retic


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Chipping will never work you have to many smaller breeders who doing even use the Internet but sell the odd motoro pup to LFS

$10 May not be a lot on the price of a $1000 Ray but it is on the cost of a retic


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I know in the dairy world, at least here in the states there is registered and grade animals. Both are cows both make milk it's just the registered animals are higher quality and gave pedigrees behind them. There could also be he possibility of this being the same in the ray world. If you want to register your rays you could and if you don't you don't have to it just won't raise the value and you couldn't be 100% confident of he rays bloodline.

The grade (unregistered) cows are just cows and less valuable then the registered cows. These would be the rays you buy a lfs that are less valuable like retics and Motoros. This would be a simple fix for the unregistered rays. They would be more affordable for everyone and still as pretty but for those who want to know if it's a pure ray or not they could not be confident, just like you can't be now.

In pedigree cows there are 100% registered cows that are the original pure Holsteins. Then any other holstien can be registered as a 50% cow as long as the sire (dad) of the cow can be identified as a 100% registered bull. These animals then threw the generations of their calves can ultimately max out their registrations at 99%. This signifies to the owner that there is the possibility of another breed of cow being mixed in the lineage of the cow at some point like a jersey or brown Swiss. This would work with pure rays but hybrids it would just be a matter of tracking their lineage.

This system could easily be transferred to rays although we need to know exactly how we would be chipping identifying each ray. In cows we use ear tags paired with a picture of the calf when it is born on its registration paper so we can show the pattern on the cow as their patterns never change so it's easy to match even an adult cow with a picture of it as a day old calf. This would work with rays whose patterns never change but we would have to come up with a system of identifying rays whose patterns dramatically change as they get older like hybrids.

The task of registering rays would initially be a monumental task that would take a long time to achieve, but it could be done if the details were worked out. The workload would ease up once the initial wave was caught up on. Does anyone know how they register the arows in Asia? Their system could aid if we were to pursue the idea of registering rays.

If we were to pursue the idea of registering rays I would be on board to aid in the establishment of the system and registration.

It would be very difficult I must say but I do believe it is obtainable.


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I'm wondering to see if my experience is common with growth rates. Your experience suggests it's not a sure thing. Could be no correlation just wondering if others noticed same thing.

BD Pearl sounds like an awesome mix

Yeah she is great. Very aggressive ray though. She gets down right nasty at feeding times.

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I know in the dairy world, at least here in the states there is registered and grade animals. Both are cows both make milk it's just the registered animals are higher quality and gave pedigrees behind them. There could also be he possibility of this being the same in the ray world. If you want to register your rays you could and if you don't you don't have to it just won't raise the value and you couldn't be 100% confident of he rays bloodline.

The grade (unregistered) cows are just cows and less valuable then the registered cows. These would be the rays you buy a lfs that are less valuable like retics and Motoros. This would be a simple fix for the unregistered rays. They would be more affordable for everyone and still as pretty but for those who want to know if it's a pure ray or not they could not be confident, just like you can't be now.

In pedigree cows there are 100% registered cows that are the original pure Holsteins. Then any other holstien can be registered as a 50% cow as long as the sire (dad) of the cow can be identified as a 100% registered bull. These animals then threw the generations of their calves can ultimately max out their registrations at 99%. This signifies to the owner that there is the possibility of another breed of cow being mixed in the lineage of the cow at some point like a jersey or brown Swiss. This would work with pure rays but hybrids it would just be a matter of tracking their lineage.

This system could easily be transferred to rays although we need to know exactly how we would be chipping identifying each ray. In cows we use ear tags paired with a picture of the calf when it is born on its registration paper so we can show the pattern on the cow as their patterns never change so it's easy to match even an adult cow with a picture of it as a day old calf. This would work with rays whose patterns never change but we would have to come up with a system of identifying rays whose patterns dramatically change as they get older like hybrids.

The task of registering rays would initially be a monumental task that would take a long time to achieve, but it could be done if the details were worked out. The workload would ease up once the initial wave was caught up on. Does anyone know how they register the arows in Asia? Their system could aid if we were to pursue the idea of registering rays.

If we were to pursue the idea of registering rays I would be on board to aid in the establishment of the system and registration.

It would be very difficult I must say but I do believe it is obtainable.


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Wouldn't this be another chance for people to rip people off by registering a Leo as a bd people would trust the chipping system and think they are getting a bd when In fact it's just a standard Leo

The chip system only seams to work on animals on the cities lists to ensure the animals are captive bred and not wild caught


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Wouldn't this be another chance for people to rip people off by registering a Leo as a bd people would trust the chipping system and think they are getting a bd when In fact it's just a standard Leo

The chip system only seams to work on animals on the cities lists to ensure the animals are captive bred and not wild caught


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Yes it would and that is the flaw with that dairy system. People are able to get tags for a registered cow and put them on a grade cow. An example would be you get tags made up for a cow that is worth $65,000 and you stick them in a grade cow which is only worth $2.000. This makes a buyer believe the worthless grade is worth $63,000 more then it actually is because they believe they are getting the high end registered cow.

I agree this is a major flaw in the system. In reality there is no way to get around it though, as long as there are people there will be liars. There's no way to beat that unfortunately.


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Nice thread going on!
Here, in Brazil, as far as I know, there are no ray breeders, although wild caught rays are available. But, i have a dream/ intention to breed those fishes and produce pure wild genes . I mean, not only breed only the same species, but also not mixing different populations. And I think about chipping them as well,and sell pups with picture of the progenitors, so it would be possible to know better what is being sold.
I don't have anything against hybrid, but I can see that's important to have pure wild genes in the hobby, as well. Even to make nice hybrids, they might be important, I presume.
I guess that it is possible to make it true , because living in Brazil would make it easier. Maybe even easier than it would be from Asia.
I'll make my way to it. At least, I will try.
Would like to know different opinions about that.
 
I would like to hear zoodiver's opinion on this topic. And what systems are in place to track a ray from zoo to zoo if there is any such thing.
 
I would like to hear zoodiver's opinion on this topic. And what systems are in place to track a ray from zoo to zoo if there is any such thing.

I would still like to know how the Asian arows are tracked as they can be falsified and lied about as well correct? What system do they use to chip the arows?


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