guppy;1284978; said:
I was talking specifically about the theory that the universe just "always existed".
are we really rare??? if so then
- Thread starter livebearerfreak
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I was talking specifically about the theory that the universe just "always existed".
False assumption here, evolution per se, does not state that the universe always existed. Nor does it state that there is no god or even guidance. it simply states that one mechanism for change in life forms habits, form, or function is the superior survival or reproduction rates of living things.
Most of the people I have talked to who believe in the process of evolution are also believers in some form of god. Even the Jesuits recognize evolution as a process of developing life, they say it is just one of the ways that God works.
Tieing the "eternal" universe theory together with evolution is like saying that christianity is the same as hinduism because they both contain at least one god.
Most of the people I have talked to who believe in the process of evolution are also believers in some form of god. Even the Jesuits recognize evolution as a process of developing life, they say it is just one of the ways that God works.
Tieing the "eternal" universe theory together with evolution is like saying that christianity is the same as hinduism because they both contain at least one god.
guppy;1285350; said:
My assumption was not that all evolutionists believe in that theory. I was addressing that because that was the argument that the guy I was going back and forth with earlier used. That is only one of many theories that evolutionists look at for origins, and it was the one he used. The second part of your post is also true, I would just like to add that there is a difference between micro and macro evolution (you might have been hinting at this). As a Christian I dont believe in the darwinistic (macro) theory of evolution at all, but I have no problem at all with micro evolution (although I would simply call it adaptation). In fact I think its further evidence of the divine intellect God used in creating living things.
How many times in your life have you had people come to your door and give you a panflet about evolution and bug you about your beliefs. I have never yet to see this happen, but we do get bible bashers every month, don't you think if people wanted to find out about what ever religion you are they would find you. Even worse is when they use the time of year (christmas/easter) or recent events (I had about 10 visits with a month of 9/11) to push their subject. And when you kindly say "I'm not interested" cause you cant tell them to F-off cause they drag their rug-rats along they start telling you about times/places to come and experiance the religion for yourself. I even had one put their foot in the way of my door so I couldn't close it cause they hadn't finished speaking yet, then when he did leave he put a panflet under the car window wippers. If that aint shoving it down my throat then I can wait to see what is. Also religion forces its view over everything, I get frowned apon cause I will eat meat on good friday, many times I have had cristians tell me that even though I am not that I should still respect their views and beliefs. When I mention the religious value of the cow in India and that they should respect their views the common anwser is "its not a real anyway". Also with genetically modifing animals, religion sticks its nose in here as well, its not allowed as its an abonination to gods creation.
I also do not believe the universe has always existed, it was just an example and a poor one at that. But why is it god can always exist and nothing else can?
"If you are willing to accept God existing, then I dont think that you would need to know where He came from. I mean He's God right? The essence of God is that He is, and was, and always will be."
Why cant this be true too for the universe, there is more proof that it exists, its there and as far as we know always will be, why does it matter where it came from?
This is the main problem with science, they need to prove everything to get recognition where as religion can fall back on "god did it" and there is no way to make them believe otherwise.
"In fact I think its further evidence of the divine intellect God used in creating living things."
Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand. How long has it been believed by religion that god created things to evolve, when did darwin publish his theories would be a rough guess.
Why do you guys believe what is in the bible so much, it was written by man (this is the second biggest flaw in religion to me and why I could never believe, first being the creation of god). Man lies to get their own way and if they can lie in something as influencial as the bible wouldn't they do it? I also think this applies to science as well, but atleast with science you can disprove a theory.
I also do not believe the universe has always existed, it was just an example and a poor one at that. But why is it god can always exist and nothing else can?
"If you are willing to accept God existing, then I dont think that you would need to know where He came from. I mean He's God right? The essence of God is that He is, and was, and always will be."
Why cant this be true too for the universe, there is more proof that it exists, its there and as far as we know always will be, why does it matter where it came from?
This is the main problem with science, they need to prove everything to get recognition where as religion can fall back on "god did it" and there is no way to make them believe otherwise.
"In fact I think its further evidence of the divine intellect God used in creating living things."
Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand. How long has it been believed by religion that god created things to evolve, when did darwin publish his theories would be a rough guess.
Why do you guys believe what is in the bible so much, it was written by man (this is the second biggest flaw in religion to me and why I could never believe, first being the creation of god). Man lies to get their own way and if they can lie in something as influencial as the bible wouldn't they do it? I also think this applies to science as well, but atleast with science you can disprove a theory.
"How many times in your life have you had people come to your door and give you a panflet about evolution and bug you about your beliefs. I have never yet to see this happen, but we do get bible bashers every month, don't you think if people wanted to find out about what ever religion you are they would find you."
Generally you are right here, although honestly I havent really had any "Bible bashers" at my door, I have had jehovas witnesses, I'm guessing that you are counting them too (although I wouldnt). My problem is not that I get evolutionists knocking on my door and telling me I'm wrong, my problem is that I hear that everywhere else. For instance in college. When I was in college and my professors would "teach" things that I thought were incorrect, and I would call them out on it, they would treat me like an idiot. Then I would give them some facts to back up my argument, and discredit theirs, and they would just ignore it. Also I get the "knocking" everyday on tv. The news, talk shows, whatever, people bash Christians all day and act like their stupid because they "dont believe in science", this is all false. So, your right I probably dont get them at my door, but I think the places I do get them are far more dangerous.
"I also do not believe the universe has always existed, it was just an example and a poor one at that. But why is it god can always exist and nothing else can?
"If you are willing to accept God existing, then I dont think that you would need to know where He came from. I mean He's God right? The essence of God is that He is, and was, and always will be."
Why cant this be true too for the universe, there is more proof that it exists, its there and as far as we know always will be, why does it matter where it came from?"
Sounds like you are playing both sides of the fence. On one hand you say, you dont believe the universe always existed, then you say why cant "this" (in regards to God always existing) be true for the universe. I'm not saying you cant believe that, you have every right to, all I'm saying is science does not support that argument.
"This is the main problem with science, they need to prove everything to get recognition where as religion can fall back on "god did it" and there is no way to make them believe otherwise.
Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand. How long has it been believed by religion that god created things to evolve, when did darwin publish his theories would be a rough guess.
I also think this applies to science as well, but atleast with science you can disprove a theory."
Again I do not choose religion over science. I believe that science supports my beliefs, and I believe that if you look at what science really has to offer, and what the facts are, that it supports the idea of creation. It would be illogical for me to say that I believe in God and creation, if I thought the facts said otherwise. I believe that you are right in that many people who may profess to believe these things do not know the facts, but I would also say there are a lot of people like that on your side too. "Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand." In my earlier post I made the point that there are different theories about evolution, specifically macro and micro. And I do not believe science proves that macro evolution is true. So, while I say that God created His creatures to be able to adapt (micro), I would never say that God used macro evolution, because it's not Biblical, and it's not scientific.
Generally you are right here, although honestly I havent really had any "Bible bashers" at my door, I have had jehovas witnesses, I'm guessing that you are counting them too (although I wouldnt). My problem is not that I get evolutionists knocking on my door and telling me I'm wrong, my problem is that I hear that everywhere else. For instance in college. When I was in college and my professors would "teach" things that I thought were incorrect, and I would call them out on it, they would treat me like an idiot. Then I would give them some facts to back up my argument, and discredit theirs, and they would just ignore it. Also I get the "knocking" everyday on tv. The news, talk shows, whatever, people bash Christians all day and act like their stupid because they "dont believe in science", this is all false. So, your right I probably dont get them at my door, but I think the places I do get them are far more dangerous.
"I also do not believe the universe has always existed, it was just an example and a poor one at that. But why is it god can always exist and nothing else can?
"If you are willing to accept God existing, then I dont think that you would need to know where He came from. I mean He's God right? The essence of God is that He is, and was, and always will be."
Why cant this be true too for the universe, there is more proof that it exists, its there and as far as we know always will be, why does it matter where it came from?"
Sounds like you are playing both sides of the fence. On one hand you say, you dont believe the universe always existed, then you say why cant "this" (in regards to God always existing) be true for the universe. I'm not saying you cant believe that, you have every right to, all I'm saying is science does not support that argument.
"This is the main problem with science, they need to prove everything to get recognition where as religion can fall back on "god did it" and there is no way to make them believe otherwise.
Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand. How long has it been believed by religion that god created things to evolve, when did darwin publish his theories would be a rough guess.
I also think this applies to science as well, but atleast with science you can disprove a theory."
Again I do not choose religion over science. I believe that science supports my beliefs, and I believe that if you look at what science really has to offer, and what the facts are, that it supports the idea of creation. It would be illogical for me to say that I believe in God and creation, if I thought the facts said otherwise. I believe that you are right in that many people who may profess to believe these things do not know the facts, but I would also say there are a lot of people like that on your side too. "Science proves that we evolve so religion just says, god did it - aint it grand." In my earlier post I made the point that there are different theories about evolution, specifically macro and micro. And I do not believe science proves that macro evolution is true. So, while I say that God created His creatures to be able to adapt (micro), I would never say that God used macro evolution, because it's not Biblical, and it's not scientific.
i read the first few pages of this thread, then the posts got big, probably gonna be closed soon. but i am a catholic and im not gonna swerve from that as easily as some people but i still do realize that nobody knows what happened thousands of years ago so no matter how much fun these threads are they are still pointless.
JD FTW
JD FTW
Back track people, this is not a debate on religion verses evolution.
It started as a thread on if you believed if we are alone in the universe.
So lets rephrase the question rather than closing the thread.
Here goes,
Do you think that in the billions of other worlds out there, is there life? If so is it intellegent? Why do you think so (either way, keep it short). And, finally...,is there intellegent life on Earth.
It started as a thread on if you believed if we are alone in the universe.
So lets rephrase the question rather than closing the thread.
Here goes,
Do you think that in the billions of other worlds out there, is there life? If so is it intellegent? Why do you think so (either way, keep it short). And, finally...,is there intellegent life on Earth.
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