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I am always hesitant to post pics cause I feel like I jinx them. This time was no different. I get home last night and it looks like one was starting to curl. Looks horrible this morning.

These guys were born a week ago tomorrow. So fat I didn't expect them to eat for a few days. Have seen a few eat, can't be 100% on all them eating.

Removed bala sharks last night. There was 3 about 4" long that could pass the divider. Didn't want them stressing the pups so I moved them.

Here's my million dollar question..... IF I have one appearing to curl should I assume it's the water if it was fine the first few days? Or could it be something else?

The pup that appears to be curling looked enormous compared to the others, swollen up like a balloon.

This tank has been up and going for months. Had a trio of midgets in it. When they were moved 2 rays (5&6") were moved in. They never missed a meal or showed any signs of anything being wrong. All the other rays (those 2 5&6"ers and other 2 pups) seem fine.

Is the one curling just the weakesst of the bunch in problomatic water or is it just a newborn issue where maybe that pup wasn't right from the get go? The fact that the disk lifting in the front and the back part where the tail is appearing to curl to me makes it seem like it's a water quality issue.

Nothing abnormal in the typical tests..... Leave them be or cut loose on waterchanges? I do have aged water to do the water changes with. It was 2 degrees shy of tank temp this morning but should be up to the pup tank temp by the time I get home. There's 100 gallons there. Can start doing small WCs the minute I get home, but don't want to stress the lil buggers either.

Don't understand why I have so much trouble when I get to this point but it seems to happen no matter what...... Gonna loose my friggin mind pretty soon.
 
So sad to hear and I'm sure I'll saying it for everyone we feel for you and the troubles that come up all too often. Unfortunately I can't help with this question as I do not know what's best. Good luck and don't loose your mind over it. As my friend would say at least your not such a bad mother that you ate them.

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DB junkie said:
I am always hesitant to post pics cause I feel like I jinx them. This time was no different. I get home last night and it looks like one was starting to curl. Looks horrible this morning.

These guys were born a week ago tomorrow. So fat I didn't expect them to eat for a few days. Have seen a few eat, can't be 100% on all them eating.

Removed bala sharks last night. There was 3 about 4" long that could pass the divider. Didn't want them stressing the pups so I moved them.

Here's my million dollar question..... IF I have one appearing to curl should I assume it's the water if it was fine the first few days? Or could it be something else?

The pup that appears to be curling looked enormous compared to the others, swollen up like a balloon.

This tank has been up and going for months. Had a trio of midgets in it. When they were moved 2 rays (5&6") were moved in. They never missed a meal or showed any signs of anything being wrong. All the other rays (those 2 5&6"ers and other 2 pups) seem fine.

Is the one curling just the weakesst of the bunch in problomatic water or is it just a newborn issue where maybe that pup wasn't right from the get go? The fact that the disk lifting in the front and the back part where the tail is appearing to curl to me makes it seem like it's a water quality issue.

Nothing abnormal in the typical tests..... Leave them be or cut loose on waterchanges? I do have aged water to do the water changes with. It was 2 degrees shy of tank temp this morning but should be up to the pup tank temp by the time I get home. There's 100 gallons there. Can start doing small WCs the minute I get home, but don't want to stress the lil buggers either.

Don't understand why I have so much trouble when I get to this point but it seems to happen no matter what...... Gonna loose my friggin mind pretty soon.
Click to expand...

DB, it may be worth a try on a smaller tank like this to pick up a Wlim UV, i am sure it will take a small one..
This could be a great place to try one to see if it helps you with some issues. Not sure how small they make but im sure Ken could help you out.
Sorry i dont have any other advise.......
 
Congrats and sorry at the same time. I have no advice for you either. I would not do anything rash as you could make matters worse. I would probably just observe and keep water clean
 
Sorry to hear Al, no advice either but I would be curious to see if/when you have other species breeding if you still have the same issues with their pups or not. Would tell a lot at least as for as if maybe it is the marbles sensitivity to certain environments or an actual water/some other type of issue.

GL
 
Check the thread in the stingray forum........

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Now I understand the importance of aging water compared to dripping water.

Still looking for flaws in the numbers, but I'm 3 hours in, and everything's been checked twice, I'm coming to find out the water isn't nice. Even double checked numbers are within 3-20 ppm. Same pump/adapter was used for all numbers except the water main and RO numbers.

Makes me wonder if TDS numbers don't shed light on the "Characin stuppor".

I'm wondering if the "snow" I see in my aging vats aren't the other half of those TDS #s......... ;)
 
as i said before, you have too much "bad luck" for it to be just coincidence.

go back to basics, put the pups in a seporate tank on their own(using the water they are currently in) with a canister filter, do a small water change with dechlorinated water and do small weekly water changes with dechlorinated water after.

aquaman for one has massive success with internal filters and i have used variations of these myself over the years so if you dont have a canister maybe you could set up an internal type filter to tide them over.
(if you neen a sugestion for this internal type, i have a very simple quick and easy to set up version)

when did you last change the filters that are on the drip ? are they the kdf media ( which contains copper i think ) if they have not been changed for a while then that could be a problem ?

hows the pup looking now ?
 
Pup was dead when I got home yesterday. Looked very swollen like it couldn't poop. Anus looked abnormally red? Maybe it had nothing to do with the water? Maybe it had everything to do with the water? One things sure, I'd sure like to know, as there's 2 more pups in there and I'm pretty much freaking out now.

Drip filters are less then a month old, but the pup/growout tank is NOT on a drip, it is an independent system. It's a 4x3x1.5' tank with a 55 gallon sump, submerged pot scrubbies and ceramic rings. There is also a canister filter (fluval 405) on this tank. Return pump is a 1200 gph mag 12. The filter sock gets changed once or twice a week.

I know it's more then just coincidence. The #s I'm coming up with could sure explain a lot IF they mean what I think they mean. Sure makes a heck of a lot more sense than anyone else's "theories" as to why I have so much trouble with pups, and also why I can't keep delicate species like Hydrolycus alive long term. I've been asking questions, second guessing, and rebuilding year after year without the slightest idea what's wrong, but knowing that SOMETHING isn't right. Maybe these numbers are the answers I've been looking for year after year. Or maybe I'm finally just getting the point where I'm beginning to loose my mind.

The pups will get thier own tank, but I have a feeling IF I was to pull them out of the 1200 PPM water and toss them into a fresh filled 175 ppm tank I have a feeling they aren't gonna last long. I broke down the canister and cleaned it (in old tank water) I did a 70% waterchange with aged water. I will continue daily waterchanges with aged water till the TDS gets back down. Once back down I will set up a new tank for them and put that canister on it.
 
70% seems an awefull big change for pups to me.

i would never just "toss" pups in any tank even if its one next door to the one they are currently in ( unless on the same system )
if your going to move them do it slowly and use the water they are already in for the new tank.

what do you age your water in ?
how about using treated/filterd tap water instead of aged water 20% at a time (rather than 70% change at once or on a constant drip) ?

im guessing that the filters that are running the pup tank now have had some sort of bioload recently and are not newly set up ?

i know some of them are daft questions mate but its often something really simple that gets overlooked or forgotten

if there is nothing unusual then all i can suggest is go back to basics. tank, simple filter (but big enough for bioload which you seem to have). 20% water change / week with water treated with dechlor/ carbon filtered straight from the tap.

really hope you get somewhere and that the remaining pups make it. i remember when i first started keeping rays with no information and no internet i lost a few to what i know now are simple errors. good luck buddy. keep us posted with the remaining pups :)
 
The aged water IS carbon filtered tap water....... Just aerated for 24+ hours. Aged and heated in big rubbermaid tubs. I added prime when I did the 70% change.

I have had horrible luck keeping pups on the same system as the adults. Watched them drop like flies, until I decided to move the last one. She's still with me 3+ years later. I'm sure if I wouldn't have "tossed" her in a seperate tank she'd be dead just like her brothers and sisters.

There was a pair of small rays in this pup tank prior to the pups. So yes, the filters were under a bio load.

Last night one of the other pups started disk lifting. No signs of it whatsoever after the waterchange. They looked fine this morning.
 
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